Who determines the number of genders- and how?

[Rolfe]

He might hold a grudge against you if you took his desire for a sparkly bathing suit as the cue to turn him into a public figure with his own reality TV show, and by the time he's 16 he finds himself so locked into the whole female persona thing - both socially and physically - that there's no going back. Especially when he finds himself having the discussions with the surgeon about how his infantile micro-penis (the result of the puberty blockers and female hormones he's been taking since he was ten) doesn't provide the necessary tissue to construct a neo-vagina, and the (highly embarrassing and very painful) solution being proposed, in front of the TV cameras.

That one has still to play out of course, he's only 16. But it looks very like child abuse to me. Was the four-year-old Jazz really told about the realities of sex reassignment surgery, or just told that when he was older the doctors could do an operation to turn him into a woman? And all because of the "pick your gender" climate.

 

[Rolfe]

Christ on a bike.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-...n-ranks-over-transgender-weightlifter/9626242

 

[Sideroxylon]

The whole multiple gender thing is a fad, socially defined rather than scientifically. It will pass, leaving the few real genders acknowledged and the rest re categorized as personality types, identity disorders, and make-pretend.

What does it mean for a gender to be scientifically defined?

 

[Thermal]

What does it mean for a gender to be scientifically defined?

Nothing, AFAIK. The OP asks by what scientific rubric it is based, I opine that except as a synonym for sex, it is not (hard) science defined.

 

[Rolfe]

It's all about the feelz.

 

[kellyb]

Christ on a bike.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-...n-ranks-over-transgender-weightlifter/9626242

"Peak trans" has a ring of truth to it. I have no problem calling people by whatever names and gender pronouns they wish, but this is ridiculous.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...r-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-speaks-out.html

"I don't believe there is any fundamental difference between me and the other athletes, and to suggest there is is slightly demeaning to them."

It's not demeaning - it's objectively true and not scientifically controversial.

 

[Rolfe]

I just found this article, which is rather glorious.

http://quillette.com/2018/04/06/lost-social-constructionisms-epistemic-rabbit-hole/

 

[Rolfe]

"Peak trans" has a ring of truth to it.

I just came across a screengrab of a tweet from a trans-identifying man declaring that "cis" women should remember that needing an abortion was a privilege they have which is denied to poor "trans women". The person tweeting it suggested that this might "peak trans" every woman in the world.

It's difficult to know which of these outrageous tweets and posts from (mainly) autogynaephilic men are real and which are faked, because Poe's Law is lying broken in the gutter in this context. But the one where the (male) self-described lesbian hooked up with a lesbian woman who then freaked out when she discovered his erect penis was a bit of a boggle too.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I just came across a screengrab of a tweet from a trans-identifying man declaring that "cis" women should remember that needing an abortion was a privilege they have which is denied to poor "trans women". The person tweeting it suggested that this might "peak trans" every woman in the world.

It's difficult to know which of these outrageous tweets and posts from (mainly) autogynaephilic men are real and which are faked, because Poe's Law is lying broken in the gutter in this context. But the one where the (male) self-described lesbian hooked up with a lesbian woman who then freaked out when she discovered his erect penis was a bit of a boggle too.

Reason #813,547 why having even a really brief couple of bullet points to go over with a potential sex partner is just a good idea.

This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be

 

[Elagabalus]

I just came across a screengrab of a tweet from a trans-identifying man declaring that "cis" women should remember that needing an abortion was a privilege they have which is denied to poor "trans women". The person tweeting it suggested that this might "peak trans" every woman in the world.


... But the one where the (male) self-described lesbian hooked up with a lesbian woman who then freaked out when she discovered his erect penis was a bit of a boggle too..

This scenario was in the screen grab?

 

[Stout]

This scenario was in the screen grab?

It's here.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes. I was about to retweet it but it was so outrageous I wondered if it was actually real, and then I saw some people in the thread claiming it was a fake. But others maintained it was genuine. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I see lots of replies where bad behavior, poor manners, and abject stupidity could be fairly derided. Maybe even a few criminal inquiries.

How that connects to gender continues to elude me. Perhaps lost in the haze of anecdotal evidence and hasty generalization?

This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be

 

[Thermal]

The main twitter account (original tweeter? tweeter zero? I dunno) claims to be born female and coercively assigned male at birth. This just makes things more confusing if male and female are supposed to be sex, not gender.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Nothing, AFAIK. The OP asks by what scientific rubric it is based, I opine that except as a synonym for sex, it is not (hard) science defined.

And what will it mean for a real gender to exist?

Here is an excellent talk by Rebecca Reilly-Cooper that gives a good overview of the landscape in the gender issue, while critiquing the recent essentialist ideas about gender that are popular today. Your raising the issue of conflating personality with gender reminded me of it. I think most posters here will be sympathetic with the speakers position.

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2016/09/pze_20160925.mp3
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/philosopherszone/gender-bending/7868086

 

[Rolfe]

I'm looking for the screen grab of the post where the man in a dress claiming to be a lesbian described his date freaking out when she discovered he had a penis, but so far I can't find it. I saw it twice yesterday but people may be wary of sharing it if they think it might be faked.

 

[Thermal]

And what will it mean for a real gender to exist?

I don't follow? Sex physically exists. Gender is an identification, which doesn't have a real existence, per se. It's an abstract description.

 

[kellyb]

There's a number (I don't know it qualifies as "a lot" or whatever) of people on the internet who are or claim to be transwomen, who are real jerks and some say some really outrageously nutty things. They seem to operate in cliques and like dog-piling people over nothing. I'm not sure what all's going on there, but I guess it's safe to say they're probably psychologically broken in some way, and it results in attention-seeking, dramatic behavior.

 

[Thermal]

I'm looking for the screen grab of the post where the man in a dress claiming to be a lesbian described his date freaking out when she discovered he had a penis, but so far I can't find it. I saw it twice yesterday but people may be wary of sharing it if they think it might be faked.

Trans-Mandella Effect.

 

[Sideroxylon]

I don't follow? Sex physically exists. Gender is an identification, which doesn't have a real existence, per se. It's an abstract description.

It was just this comment up stream, “The whole multiple gender thing is a fad, socially defined rather than scientifically. It will pass, leaving the few real genders acknowledged.” Looks like we are on the same page as having non essentialist views of gender though that comment looks to run with auch an idea.