Pro-gun posters: What regulations do you want?

[NWO Sentryman]

I think that in light of recent events, it is fair that the Pro-Gun side be allowed a platform to explain what their ideal regulation system would be for dealing with gun crime.

 

[theprestige]

I'd be willing to consider any proposal that passed strict scrutiny, TBQHWY, fam.

 

[BobTheCoward]

None

 

[BStrong]

I originally posted this back in 2012. I have to update one fact - there are now two crimes determined to have been committed with a registered NFA weapon or device. The second instance is the Ex-LAPD officer that targeted LAPD cops in 2013:

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FWIW, here's a post of mine from 2012 outlining what I believe would be a workable universal approach to gun control

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9&postcount=25

From my pov based on my training and experience, if I were put in charge of revamping firearms laws across the board this is what I'd do - warning - there will something guaranteed to piss off everyone.

Federal control over the states - no no-control states, no over controlled states.

Draconian penalities for criminal or negligent misuse or storage of a firearm, including mandatory minimum sentence enhancments for use of a firearm in crime that would be completely seperate from the sentence in the underlying indictment, with no concurrent sentence and no probation/parole option for the court - Example - possession of a firearm during the course of a robbery that doesn't imvolve injury to the victim, lets say 10 years on the firearm charge, to be served in full before 1 day credit on the robbery charge. You get the idea.

Safe storage accross the board - you can purchase a basic steel key entry storage cabinent that will keep kids or honest people out for under $200.00, Undividual pistol safes can be purchased for $100.00 or less.

Safe storage laws not to be intended to require firearms under lock and key when the owner is in residence - the law would be intended to provide security against theft primarily, not as a restriction prohibiting defensive use.

All firearms sales of title 1 firearms subject to NICS instant background check.

All sales must be conducted through an FFL dealer (allowed to charge a modest fee) and subject to the NICS check as above.

Any theft of a firearm must be reported asap - if the owner is in Italy for a month and comes back to find he/she has been robbed, the first call better be to the local agency.

Shall issue carry permits available in every state, subject to training and live fire range qualification every six months - I'd suggest a minimum classroom component of 32 hrs. (an abbreviated version of Police Officer Standardized Training) and the live fire test should be comprehensive. If you want to carry, you have to measure up.

No magazine capacity restrictions - it's a complete waste of effort.

Any semi-auto version of a design originally manufactured as a selective fire or full auto weapon would be subject to NFA registration in a seperate category, not subject to the $200.00 transfer tax or CLEO sign-off. The purchaser would be subject to the NICS instant check only, but would be required to provide a Certificate of Eligibility with photo and prints - this would be transmitted electroniclly to ATF for inclusion in the NFTR (National Firearms Transfer Record) No additional restrictions in any state on this class of firearm beyond the above stated. As part othe above, ATF would have to get their **** fully together wrt the NFTR - it's a shambles now and has been so for the last 30 or so years, don't get me started.

All of the above must be stored in actual safes or vaults. The buyer can bring in a pic of his setup, and sign a statement under threat of prosecution for perjury and a loss of firearms rights for a minimum of let's say, 5 years if his/her semi-auto military type firearms are stolen from home, and there is evidence that the firearms were not securly stored - if a bad actor can remove the whole safe, and the evidence supports that, no charges against the firearm owner

NFA weapons and devices -

Rescind the section of the Firearms Owners Protection Act prohibiting the manufacture of new machine guns - since 1934, there has been ONE crime known to have been commited with prosecution resulting in conviction from possession of a registered MG, and I'm ashamed to admit that it was a LEO who commited the crime. Registered weapons and devices have not been and are not a problem. With the buy in point where it is, even assuming a drop in price for the lower end of the price scale, anybody willing to go through the whole process and a 5 figure investment isn't likely to act out in any criminal fashion.

Oh yeah, carry permit fees, CoE licenses etc, have to be reasonably related to the costs to administer, no $10,000.00 permit fees...

Fire away, I know I'm going to get it from both sides.

 

[mgidm86]

I think that in light of recent events, it is fair that the Pro-Gun side be allowed a platform to explain what their ideal regulation system would be for dealing with gun crime.

I think that is a great question because the only way any significant change can occur is if gun owners are not only brought into the discussion, but are also in agreement that changes actually need to be made.

 

[Metullus]

Shall issue carry permits available in every state, subject to training and live fire range qualification every six months - I'd suggest a minimum classroom component of 32 hrs. (an abbreviated version of Police Officer Standardized Training) and the live fire test should be comprehensive. If you want to carry, you have to measure up.

I am pretty much okay with everything you wrote except I do see a problem here. I think that range qualification every 12 months wold be more realistic. Who will administer the training and where would it be administered? Will county and state authorities have responsibility here? Given the scarcity of public ranges in certain jurisdictions frequent qualification might be problematic.

 

[Oystein]

... Given the scarcity of public ranges in certain jurisdictions frequent qualification might be problematic.

That would be a great lobbying cause for the NRA: call for local taxes to fund training

 

[theprestige]

I am pretty much okay with everything you wrote except I do see a problem here. I think that range qualification every 12 months wold be more realistic. Who will administer the training and where would it be administered? Will county and state authorities have responsibility here? Given the scarcity of public ranges in certain jurisdictions frequent qualification might be problematic.

Frequent qualifications are also kind of regressive.

 

[Border Reiver]

Fire away, I know I'm going to get it from both sides.

I've said it before, and regrettably I think I'll need to say it after this - your ideas are reasonable, well thought out, and likely to get and keep the support of the moderate middle. I believe they are workable, and over a longer term, likely to reduce gun violence through reasonable regulation.

I would add that purchases of ammunition, or the components necessary to make your own ammunition (primers, powder, projectiles) should require the presentation of a valid permit.

Now the trick is to:

a. Get this to a legislator;
b. Convince them that this is a winner;
c. Use the momentum of March for Our Lives to get it in front of the relevant legislative bodies; and
d. Use the momentum to resist the pressure from the NRA and gun manufacturers to delay hearings, etc. until the legislative body is prorogued for the next election killing the bill.

 

[uke2se]

I think that is a great question because the only way any significant change can occur is if gun owners are not only brought into the discussion, but are also in agreement that changes actually need to be made.

Do you agree that changes need to be made?

 

[Cleon]

One idea I've had recently is limitation of manufacture and imports.

Right now if you get a class 7 FFL, you can make as many firearms as you want. Whether you're a guy who hand-crafts revolvers or a multi-zillion-dollar manufacturer like Browning, it's the same license.

Instead, I'm thinking that the class 7 will allow you to make an unlimited number of bolt-action rifles and revolvers, X semiautomatic handguns, Y semiautomatic rifles, Z semiautomatic rifles with detachable magazines. And something similar for non-C&R imports (class 8).

This would limit supply rather than try to restrict ownership. Pricing will drive "assault weapons" out of reach for your average wannabe mass murderer, but revolvers and handguns would still be widely available.

Best of all, it doesn't affect existing owners and there's no "gun grab" or registration. It's also infinitely easier to enforce, since you're only looking at a few places in the supply chain instead of millions of individual owners.

It's just a rough idea, and certainly not a substitute for things like safe-storage laws. I like a lot of what BStrong says as well, but I'm more of a fan of a national carry permit. That way issues of reciprocity and differing standards from state-to-state become less of an issue.

 

[Giz]

One thing to be clarified is, are we talking about reducing:
- murder rates
- gun murder rates
- mass shooting rates

All three may have different drivers/solutions. Some will involve gun control, some mental health, some social, some economic.

 

[Cainkane1]

As a gun owner myself, I was appalled that a 19-year-old boy could go into a gun store and buy a semi-automatic rifle. I was equally appalled that known lunatics like the guy at Sandy Hook and the lunatic at Las Vegas were not disarmed.

I own guns and the public is safe from me. I'm not a lunatic.

Disarm the lunatics.

 

[ahhell]

One thing to be clarified is, are we talking about reducing:
- murder rates
- gun murder rates
- mass shooting rates

All three may have different drivers/solutions. Some will involve gun control, some mental health, some social, some economic.

You should probably add suicide and accidental killings to that list. Suicides make up something like 60% of gun deaths if I remember correctly.

Disarm the lunatics.

Identifying them before hand and providing due process is the hard part there.

I'm in transition in my opinions on this currently. If you really want to have biggest impact, ignore long guns. Most gun deaths involve pistols. I'd consider a ban on sales of new pistols and some sort of buy back program to get as many out of circulation as possible.

 

[Segnosaur]

I think that is a great question because the only way any significant change can occur is if gun owners are not only brought into the discussion, but are also in agreement that changes actually need to be made.

I rather suspect that people would be more willing to bring gun owners (or their representatives like the NRA) into the conversation if they contributed more than just "Hands off our guns! Obama is the antichrist! Freedom! We need more guns!".

 

[MikeG]

.......I own guns and the public is safe from me. I'm not a lunatic. .......

Not yet, maybe. My FIL was fairly sane 5 years ago. Mad as a cut snake now. You're just a series of transient ischemic attacks (TIAs) away from being as mad as him, and they can be happening without your knowledge.

Secondly, no lunatic thinks they are a lunatic.

 

[ponderingturtle]

As a gun owner myself, I was appalled that a 19-year-old boy could go into a gun store and buy a semi-automatic rifle. I was equally appalled that known lunatics like the guy at Sandy Hook and the lunatic at Las Vegas were not disarmed.

I own guns and the public is safe from me. I'm not a lunatic.

Disarm the lunatics.

Sandy Hook was not his gun but his mothers. So you need to take guns from people related to lunatics.

 

[LTC8K6]

As a gun owner myself, I was appalled that a 19-year-old boy could go into a gun store and buy a semi-automatic rifle. I was equally appalled that known lunatics like the guy at Sandy Hook and the lunatic at Las Vegas were not disarmed.

I own guns and the public is safe from me. I'm not a lunatic.

Disarm the lunatics.

He can fight overseas in the military, and vote, but he can't be trusted with a common rifle or a can of beer...

 

[LTC8K6]

I think that in light of recent events, it is fair that the Pro-Gun side be allowed a platform to explain what their ideal regulation system would be for dealing with gun crime.

Enforce current laws strictly.

Figure out some way to deal with mental illness as far as buying a gun.

I don't know how to do that, though.

 

[Thermal]

Sandy Hook was not his gun but his mothers. So you need to take guns from people related to lunatics.

Secure gun safes would be a reasonable requirement, I think all sides can agree