smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
....and yet you still have no idea what a strawman argument is!
Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge
- Thread starter BStrong
- Start date
- Status
....and yet you still have no idea what a strawman argument is!
Axxman300
Philosopher
The whole JFK-CT thing is rooted in the Vietnam War, and the belief that had Kennedy lived we would never have escalated our involvement, and that most of the men who died there would have lived.
The problem with this idea is that it's problematic, nobody can say with certainty that JFK wouldn't have had a similar course in SE Asia. Kennedy's defense philosophy was called "Flexible Response" and it required a large military force to respond to world hot-spots. Vietnam looked like an easy situation in 1963, and looked just as easy in 1965. Who knows how things would have played out with JFK in the Oval Office instead of LBJ. I like to think he would have been more pragmatic, and handled things differently, but nobody can say with certainty.
There was no guarantee JFK would have been re-elected. The fact that he was Catholic was a huge problem for many Americans in 1963/64. The Kennedy White House, at the time of his death, had not advanced it's agenda, a it had nothing to point to in the way of new laws, or reforms. On paper, JFK didn't get a lot done.
So why kill him?
Who would want him dead?
No CTist has ever successfully answered the question as to the need to kill JFK, and backed it up with substantiated evidence.
bknight
Master Poster
CORed
Penultimate Amazing
Well, we don't really know what his skill level was a couple of years ago, but if it's better now than it was then, it was truly awful then.
Major Major
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- May 7, 2007
- Messages
- 438
The reasons I've seen were:
1) He was going to have the Federal Reserve Bank audited.
2) He was pressing too close on the Mob.
3) Castro wanted revenge.
4) The Cowboys (southern and western types) did it to defeat the Yankees (Northwesterners).
5) As you said, he was going to pull out of Vietnam.
None of them are supported by any actual evidence; at best we have alleged third-hand third-party statements by alleged plotters, or "It stands to reason" chains of irrationality.
tinribmancer
Hasbarian NWO Templar Cattle
Part of the NWOtm
If you have a reddit account, you could ask kyoon or YoungKyoon (his reddit username there). He'll probably say it was "Patrick Hitler Stuart" with his inept Imaginatti cronnies, because of some sort of transgender agenda.
The reasons I've seen were:
1) He was going to have the Federal Reserve Bank audited.
2) He was pressing too close on the Mob.
3) Castro wanted revenge.
4) The Cowboys (southern and western types) did it to defeat the Yankees (Northwesterners).
5) As you said, he was going to pull out of Vietnam.
None of them are supported by any actual evidence; at best we have alleged third-hand third-party statements by alleged plotters, or "It stands to reason" chains of irrationality.
I've seen more:
1.Kennedy was killed by a version of himself from the future, because otherwise it would cause WWIII (I'm getting "The Matrix" vibes from this one).
2.Kennedy survived and was replaced by a double "they" buried instead, alien abducted, still secretly running things from behind the scenes along with his family, the "curse" being a huge smokescreen, died in a mental institution as a vegetable from the brain damage... take your pick.
3.Kennedy shot first.
4.Oswald was a patsy and Joseph Milteer, a right-winger associated with extremist groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and who was under surveillance for threatening to kill the president, had arranged or participated in the assassination. Some believe Milteer was part of a conspiracy masterminded by the Papacy which involved the U.S. Intelligence communities and remnants of the Third Reich brought over during Operation Paperclip.
5.The Democrats assassinated Kennedy because he was a Conservative. People like Mary Lou Bruner believe this.
6.Oswald shot Kennedy through the neck and a Secret Service agent in the following car accidentally shot him in the head raising his rifle to return fire (the third casing by Oswald was used to keep the chamber of his rifle clean).
7.Woody Harrelson's estranged father was behind it.
8.T. Casey Brennan did it, or so he says. This claim is just one ingredient of his mighty chick-magnetism.
9.Principia Discordia author Kerry Thornley was Lee Harvey Oswald's best friend in the Marines in 1959, so there is a Discordianism connection to the assassination.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
Why do you need a one-on-one thread to do the same thing you do in this one?
You can continue to lose in this thread as easily as you would in another.
HSienzant
Philosopher
That's why no one here will bother with you on a one-on-one. You utilize the red herring like red is your favorite color.
Hank
SpitfireIX
Philosopher
To expand on what I posted earlier, MJ thinks that he's losing the debate (that is, failing to score as many rhetorical points as he thinks he should be) because everyone's ganging up on him. He is unwilling or unable to accept that he's losing the debate because he has no real evidence to support his theories, such as they are. He thinks, or at least hopes, that he can score more rhetorical points in a one-on-one debate. What he fails to realize is that everyone else is interested in arriving at the truth, rather than scoring rhetorical points.
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
Limiting or hobbling what criticism can be brought to bear is a tactic I see often in fringe argumentation. A one-on-one debate means the proponent only has to deal with the arguments and facts his one critic has at hand, instead of all the arguments and facts that apply. If the goal is to turn in a performance others might praise, a one-on-one debate is good for that. If the goal is to test the idea, a one-on-one debate is not as effective a test as one in which all critics of the idea are accommodated.
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2010
- Messages
- 8,607
Why would anybody want to debate somebody who will not lay down a complete theory to be debated?
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
I think that's a fair point. There doesn't seem to be much to discuss if he hasn't outlined his entire scenario for who shot JFK which accounts for all the evidence.
Ball's in your court, MicahJava.
Ball's in your court, MicahJava.
CORed
Penultimate Amazing
MicahJava, since he entered this thread, has engaged in nothing but anomaly hunting, and, even for that category of weak sauce, it is very weak sauce indead. His biggest pieces of "evidence" so far are a quibble about the exact location of the entrance wound, which he asserts shows that there was a shooter other than Oswald (who apparently left no other evidence), and the fact that the casket did not arrive immediately after the completion of the autopsy, which, in his mind, apparently means that the autopsy was completed later than it was said to have been completed, and that, somehow, in his mind, is evidence that the autopsy was somehow rigged (the same autopsy that he likes to cherry pick for support for his other line of "evidence").
Last edited:
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
We'll have a couple of weeks before the ball gets lobbed back from his side of the court.
I've seen more:
1.Kennedy was killed by a version of himself from the future, because otherwise it would cause WWIII (I'm getting "The Matrix" vibes from this one).
2.Kennedy survived and was replaced by a double "they" buried instead, alien abducted, still secretly running things from behind the scenes along with his family, the "curse" being a huge smokescreen, died in a mental institution as a vegetable from the brain damage... take your pick.
3.Kennedy shot first.
4.Oswald was a patsy and Joseph Milteer, a right-winger associated with extremist groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and who was under surveillance for threatening to kill the president, had arranged or participated in the assassination. Some believe Milteer was part of a conspiracy masterminded by the Papacy which involved the U.S. Intelligence communities and remnants of the Third Reich brought over during Operation Paperclip.
5.The Democrats assassinated Kennedy because he was a Conservative. People like Mary Lou Bruner believe this.
6.Oswald shot Kennedy through the neck and a Secret Service agent in the following car accidentally shot him in the head raising his rifle to return fire (the third casing by Oswald was used to keep the chamber of his rifle clean).
7.Woody Harrelson's estranged father was behind it.
8.T. Casey Brennan did it, or so he says. This claim is just one ingredient of his mighty chick-magnetism.
9.Principia Discordia author Kerry Thornley was Lee Harvey Oswald's best friend in the Marines in 1959, so there is a Discordianism connection to the assassination.
My absolute favorite JFK conspiracy theory is that Majestic 12 killed him because he was going to reveal the alien presence on Earth to the general public.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
And the nine games are up, so it will be a new ball!
I'll bet MicahJava is spending his time out going back and reviewing all the questions he has been asked and is formulating well researched answers.
Or...spending another few hours becoming an expert on mortuary practices like he did when he became a firearm expert.
We should get a private betting pool going on what fringe reset he will post when he returns.
Or...spending another few hours becoming an expert on mortuary practices like he did when he became a firearm expert.
We should get a private betting pool going on what fringe reset he will post when he returns.
bknight
Master Poster
MJ probably post nonsense in one of the 9/11 threads and return with failed thoughts that have been trashed to the nth degree. That is to anyone not in the CT cloud.
- Status