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Trump's Tariffs

Fudbucker

Philosopher
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Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
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"Trump said the US will impose a 25% tariff on steel imports and 10% tariff on aluminum to shore up the struggling industries, capping a fierce, months-long internal debate that divided some of the President's top advisers."

I view this as a good thing. Americans buy way too much crap. It's not good for the country or the environment. If Trump goes through with this, it should tamp down our rampant consumerism a bit.
 
Oh goodie. A trade war. Just what the world needs.
 
Fudbucker said:
"Trump said the US will impose a 25% tariff on steel imports and 10% tariff on aluminum to shore up the struggling industries, capping a fierce, months-long internal debate that divided some of the President's top advisers."

I view this as a good thing. Americans buy way too much crap. It's not good for the country or the environment. If Trump goes through with this, it should tamp down our rampant consumerism a bit.
Click to expand...

One of the problems with this is the assumption that Americans are the end consumer of this imported steel. This isn't the case - most of the steel is raw material crafted into new products intended for export.

It's favouring steel foundries over more advanced steel producer/exporters. Americans will feel it in net job losses as these more modern advanced businesses lose competitiveness to overseas factories.


This is why the clause Trump is using is not an economic argument - he's claiming it is a matter of national security.



ETA: regarding the environment... I doubt there will be an ecological gain. Steel getting more expensive may just drive substitution. Steel framing for drywall getting too expensive? Use wood, chop down some forests.
 
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blutoski said:
...... Steel framing for drywall getting too expensive? Use wood, chop down some forests.
Click to expand...

There's no comparison. Wood is a crop. It grows, gets harvested, it re-grows. It is also sustainable, unlike steel, and is very low carbon. It is entirely wasteful to be using steel for something like stud walls.

You are right in principle, though, just chose a poor example to illustrate it. there will be substitution. Hopefully, one of the things substituted will be Trump.
 
blutoski said:
One of the problems with this is the assumption that Americans are the end consumer of this imported steel. This isn't the case - most of the steel is raw material crafted into new products intended for export.

It's favouring steel foundries over more advanced steel producer/exporters. Americans will feel it in net job losses as these more modern advanced businesses lose competitiveness to overseas factories.


This is why the clause Trump is using is not an economic argument - he's claiming it is a matter of national security.



ETA: regarding the environment... I doubt there will be an ecological gain. Steel getting more expensive may just drive substitution. Steel framing for drywall getting too expensive? Use wood, chop down some forests.
Click to expand...

Good points.
 
Fudbucker said:
"Trump said the US will impose a 25% tariff on steel imports and 10% tariff on aluminum to shore up the struggling industries, capping a fierce, months-long internal debate that divided some of the President's top advisers."

I view this as a good thing. Americans buy way too much crap. It's not good for the country or the environment. If Trump goes through with this, it should tamp down our rampant consumerism a bit.
Click to expand...

We buy too much stuff? :jaw-dropp

Do you know much about this kind of trade war?

See the stock market take a dive? Wonder what they know you don't?

OTOH, the adults in the room are slow walking actual legislation because they understand this is just little Trumpy in a bad mood over all the bad news bears that invaded his happy time. It's all theater, Trump theater where he plays the MAGA star and people clap and pay attention to him.

When he finds out this is going to give him more negative coverage he'll have another Tweet attack and he'll pick another bit of BS to put on the next show.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
We buy too much stuff? :jaw-dropp
Click to expand...

Why is this a surprise? It would take what, three planets to supply the needed materials if everyone on Earth lived like us. We generate more trash, per capita, than any other country.

ETA: there are a couple of countries worse than us.
Do you know much about this kind of trade war?

See the stock market take a dive? Wonder what they know you don't?

OTOH, the adults in the room are slow walking actual legislation because they understand this is just little Trumpy in a bad mood over all the bad news bears that invaded his happy time. It's all theater, Trump theater where he plays the MAGA star and people clap and pay attention to him.

When he finds out this is going to give him more negative coverage he'll have another Tweet attack and he'll pick another bit of BS to put on the next show.
Click to expand...



Politically, this will be a nightmare for Trump. Prices will jump immediately. Countries will retaliate. It will take a long time for steel companies to ramp up production. I was always leery about outsourcing our manufacturing to other countries. Prices dropped, but that doesn't mean it was necessarily good for the country.
 
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blutoski said:
One of the problems with this is the assumption that Americans are the end consumer of this imported steel. This isn't the case - most of the steel is raw material crafted into new products intended for export.

It's favouring steel foundries over more advanced steel producer/exporters. Americans will feel it in net job losses as these more modern advanced businesses lose competitiveness to overseas factories.


This is why the clause Trump is using is not an economic argument - he's claiming it is a matter of national security.



ETA: regarding the environment... I doubt there will be an ecological gain. Steel getting more expensive may just drive substitution. Steel framing for drywall getting too expensive? Use wood, chop down some forests.
Click to expand...

The wood used for framing around here is almost entirely imported, from Canada.
 
The one issue Trump is firmest on is trade. That is really unfortunate, but nobody can say it comes as much of a surprise.
 
It's worse then unfortunate, it is going to be disasterous unless Congress begins pushing back on his idiotic proposols. I am not holding my breath.
 
Protectionism works for 2 or 3 years, so it'll gain Trump his re-election; domage.

In 2015 - last year with detailed spreadsheets- the Argentina-USA bilateral trade of goods was this way:

Argentina exported 3382 million USD to the States, including aluminium and steel
United States exported 7655 million USD to Argentina.

Since Trump's arrival all kind of prohibition and barriers have been lifted on Argentine produce and manufactures exported to the United States.

My proposal is having a 20% compensatory tax on all products imported from the USA as a retaliation for them being stupid and lifting barriers on a country who buys from them way more than it sells to them.
 
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If a country wishes to tax their people to subsidize our consumption....we are the winners of that deal. We certainly are not being hurt by it.
 
aleCcowaN said:
Protectionism works for 2 or 3 years, so it'll gain Trump his re-election; domage.
Click to expand...
Maybe not. The EU's retaliation will specifically target republican districts and it will come within days of the Trump tariffs.
 
Fudbucker said:
Why is this a surprise? It would take what, three planets to supply the needed materials if everyone on Earth lived like us. We generate more trash, per capita, than any other country.

ETA: there are a couple of countries worse than us.




Politically, this will be a nightmare for Trump. Prices will jump immediately. Countries will retaliate. It will take a long time for steel companies to ramp up production. I was always leery about outsourcing our manufacturing to other countries. Prices dropped, but that doesn't mean it was necessarily good for the country.
Click to expand...

Was curious about this so had a quick check and there doesn't seem to be any state owned steel companies in the USA so in what way is it "ours"?
 
GnaGnaMan said:
Maybe not. The EU's retaliation will specifically target republican districts and it will come within days of the Trump tariffs.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that they'll be sophisticated enough to hit at Trump-supporting areas, but I can be pretty sure they'll be working out what will be hurting the USA without hurting the EU.
 
Darat said:
Was curious about this so had a quick check and there doesn't seem to be any state owned steel companies in the USA so in what way is it "ours"?
Click to expand...

Employing Americans, and with factories in the USA. Other than extreme socialists, I guess that's what most people would recognise as "ours" when it comes to industries.
 
MikeG said:
There's no comparison. Wood is a crop. It grows, gets harvested, it re-grows. It is also sustainable, unlike steel, and is very low carbon. It is entirely wasteful to be using steel for something like stud walls.
Click to expand...

Only if ecologically speaking a "Tree farm" and a "Forest" are the same thing.

Forests are complex eco systems. You can't chop them down, plant new ones, and have it all add up.
 
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