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Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

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MicahJava said:
Not to mention that ignoring Connally's statements can't undue them.
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When you talked about the context of the comments, did you take into consideration that he was under the stress of being shot at, and indeed of being shot?

How accurate is his ability to judge times? I would assume his abilities are in the human range. Humans are not, unless actively counting, very good at guessing times.
 
Quote:
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate as to the timespan between the first shot which you heard and the shot which you heretofore characterized as the third shot?

Governor CONNALLY. It was a very brief span of time; oh, I would have to say a matter of seconds. I don't know, 10, 12 seconds. It was extremely rapid, so much so that again I thought that whoever was firing must be firing with an automatic rifle because of the rapidity of the shots; a very short period of time.[/color]
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Automatic weapon firing with 12 seconds between shots?
 
Wolrab said:
Automatic weapon firing with 12 FIVE TO SIX seconds between shots?
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FTFY.

Connally was obviously confused. MicahJava ignores all that and pretends anything Connally said was gospel (but only when it agrees with his theory).

Connally said 10-12 seconds for the entire shooting span, of which he said there were three shots. That means roughly five to six seconds between shots, as the clock starts with the first shot.

And as I pointed out to an earlier poster, there is almost exactly five seconds between the shot that wounded JFK & Connally (the so-called 'magic bullet') and the shot that struck JFK in the head (Zapruder frames 223 & 313). Since Zapruder's camera exposed film at 18.3 frames per second, that's 90 / 18.3 or 4.9 seconds between shots. 4.9 seconds before 223 is frame 133, perhaps too early for the first shot, but nowhere in the area MicahJava likes to pretend the first shot occurred (Z190-224). Z223 is when the second shot occurred, as we can see both men start to react to a wounding at that time.

So Micah Java has to pretend Connally got the roughly five seconds between shots two & three almost exactly right, but missed wildly on the total time by allocating about 10-12 seconds for all three shots.

Hank
 
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MicahJava said:
Hank, that is very, very nasty of you. Here is the full quote from John Connally in context:

Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate as to the timespan between the first shot which you heard and the shot which you heretofore characterized as the third shot?

Governor CONNALLY. It was a very brief span of time; oh, I would have to say a matter of seconds. I don't know, 10, 12 seconds. [reminder, Connally thought there were three shots, and he felt quite certain of that - Hank]. It was extremely rapid, so much so that again I thought that whoever was firing must be firing with an automatic rifle because of the rapidity of the shots; a very short period of time.

I don't know why I even try with you. You know what, I would laugh so hard if you tried to pull the "I made an honest mistake and conspiracy theorists always think mistakes are malicious" routine right now. I would laugh so hard.

Also, here is Commission Exhibit 699, from the same paragraph you quoted from, where Connally placed the first loud shot occurring with the limousine in the z190-224 area, circled below.
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How'd you determine that the area where the white vehicle is represents 35 frames of the Zapruder film - specifically frames Z190 - Z224?

You won't answer of course.

You're just making that specificity up. If the spot where the white vehicle is represents 35 frames, that's the same as claiming the limo stopped for 35 frames during the early part of the shooting. Is that what you're claiming?

Hank
 
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MicahJava said:
Not to mention that ignoring Connally's statements can't undue undo them.
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Tell us why Connally estimated 10-12 seconds for three shots, if the first one was in the range of Z190 - Z224, as you claim.

That's as little as 4.9 to 6.8 seconds for all the shots. Was Connally a good witness despite estimating 10-12 seconds?

And if there were additional shots from other weapons as you're trying to allege, where's the evidence for the other weapons and the other ammo?

Not one witness saw a weapon anywhere but the Depository's upper floors. Not one fragment, shell, or bullet was recovered from anywhere in Dealey Plaza that points to another shooter. Not one wound inflicted on either victim points back to anywhere but the Depository.

Ignoring my points won't undo them either.

Hank
 
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MicahJava said:
Not to mention that ignoring Connally's statements can't undue them.
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I just finished telling you that people make mistakes in the judgement of timing. You reply by saying that Connally's statement cannot be dismissed as errors in judgement. This is known as ignorance.

Physics and maths trump human estimates.

There is NO ERROR in the mathematics
There is NO ERROR in the physics
 
MicahJava said:
Not to mention that ignoring Connally's statements can't undue them.
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smartcooky said:
I just finished telling you that people make mistakes in the judgement of timing. You reply by saying that Connally's statement cannot be dismissed as errors in judgement. This is known as willful ignorance.

Physics and maths trump human estimates.

There is NO ERROR in the mathematics
There is NO ERROR in the physics
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FTFY. :)
 
Tomtomkent said:
When you talked about the context of the comments, did you take into consideration that he was under the stress of being shot at, and indeed of being shot?

How accurate is his ability to judge times? I would assume his abilities are in the human range. Humans are not, unless actively counting, very good at guessing times.
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He hears the first shot.

The second just hits him before the sound gets there, and by then he's gasping for air and going into shock (that kinda thing happens when a bullet enters your body), plus his wife is screaming, Jackie's screaming, JFK was probably making some kind of awful sound before his head went boom, so the only reliable thing the governor can tell us is that he was shot.
 
MicahJava said:
Not to mention that ignoring Connally's statements can't undue them.
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They do not matter.

He never saw a shooter.

In the big picture Connally is at best a background witness, and is certainly not key to the investigation.

All that matters is that we know only two bullets struck the car, and that those bullets were fired by the same rifle from the same place, and those bullets (6.5x52mm) were exclusive to the Carcano rifle. These facts are unassailable and have not changed since 11/22/1963.

And that's the funny thing with facts, unlike CT-allegations the facts don't change.
 
MicahJava said:
Connally always said that he was struck only a brief moment after the first loud shot he heard. A few moments after that, the final loud "third" shot (around the time of z313). Hank took Connally's description of the space between the time he was struck and the final loud shot he heard and quoted it as if he was describing the time between the first loud shot and the unheard shot that struck him.
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Here's another thing I know first hand but wished I didn't

Getting shot under any circumstances is guaranteed to cause confusion and a temporary loss of memory.

State Governors are not exempt from the physical effects.
 
BStrong said:
Here's another thing I know first hand but wished I didn't

Getting shot under any circumstances is guaranteed to cause confusion and a temporary loss of memory.

State Governors are not exempt from the physical effects.
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Now I have not been shot... but I have been shot at (UNIIMOG 1989)

The absolute LAST thing I was thinking about was counting the seconds between gunshots.
 
smartcooky said:
Now I have not been shot... but I have been shot at (UNIIMOG 1989)

The absolute LAST thing I was thinking about was counting the seconds between gunshots.
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I have been shot at also, and I agree with you on that comment. I suspect JBC was just "filling" in numbers that have been published for years. Other than the "short interval" which is a relative evaluation.
 
You don't find it odd that he thought the shooter was using an automatic weapon with several seconds between shots?
 
Why do so many Conspiracy Theories rely so heavily on not understanding the fundamentals of human nature?

Look at the language in this thread:

People can never be honestly mistaken, or reach a wrong conclusions. They must be lying, or delusional.
 
Tomtomkent said:
People can never be honestly mistaken, or reach a wrong conclusions. They must be lying, or delusional.
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To be fair, they are relying on personal experience of the CTist echo chamber and projecting that onto others. It isn't like they get out of the basement to interact with real people.
 
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