Bitcoin - Part 2

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hello, adepts,

how, technically, bitcoin can become a global and only currency?
we take that limited amount and divide among all people on the Earth? Isn't dropping currencies and declaring communism easier?

other way. those who have bitcoins, have it. what about others? will they be left without money until they earn bitcoins in one way or another? how it will be done if there is a strict quantity of bc?

i understand this is very oversimplified, but so is this thread ;P
 
kayle said:
how, technically, bitcoin can become a global and only currency?
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Why should it?

kayle said:
we take that limited amount and divide among all people on the Earth? Isn't dropping currencies and declaring communism easier?
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That is not "technically" - it is "politically".

kayle said:
other way. those who have bitcoins, have it. what about others? will they be left without money until they earn bitcoins in one way or another? how it will be done if there is a strict quantity of bc?
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The Currency Act of 1764 attempted to do something similar with gold. It banned the colonies from printing their own money. Do you know what happened next?

kayle said:
i understand this is very oversimplified, but so is this thread ;P
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If you really wish to appear smarter than the other posters in this thread then you should learn to recognize a strawman argument - especially when it is you who is constructing the strawman.
 
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psionl0 said:
What a ridiculous analogy! Do you think that anybody who makes an offer on bitcoin is telling lies? Where is your proof?
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My proof is the number of people buying cryptos. They all think they can find a bigger fool down the road.

What is amazing me is just how many bigger fools there are at the moment. Too much fiat currency looking for a return.
 
psionl0 said:
That is proof that they are buying cryptos and NOT making bogus offers.
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They are buying cryptos indeed. What is their motive? That these cryptos will produce some sort of revenue, or that they can be sold again later at a higher price?

If the second is true - and it is - what is the ultimate source of the funds underlying this price? It is the money that will be contributed by future purchasers. The "greater fools".
 
Craig B said:
They are buying cryptos indeed. What is their motive? That these cryptos will produce some sort of revenue, or that they can be sold again later at a higher price?

If the second is true - and it is - what is the ultimate source of the funds underlying this price? It is the money that will be contributed by future purchasers. The "greater fools".
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Already explained:
psionl0 said:
Stamp collecting has the same features. There are lots of commodity investments that produce no revenue and rely only on people willing to pay higher prices for them for their value.

As a matter of fact, the only difference between an investment that produces a dividend and one that doesn't is simple mathematics. If one reinvested the dividend into buying more of the same stock then one would have a stock holding that gradually increased in value. Although for some "blue chip" stocks this results in a slow but steady growth, in many other cases, the dividend returns are swamped by variations in stock price.

As for the differences:

You are attempting to link bitcoin to a handful of historic investments that experienced a brief period of intense speculation based on lies.

Bitcoin is nothing like that. It has already outlasted your examples many fold and it has always recovered from serious price falls. None of your examples did. There is no evidence that bitcoin is (or is about to enter in) a "final" bubble.
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psionl0 said:
Already explained:
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... Bitcoin is nothing like that. It has already outlasted your examples many fold and it has always recovered from serious price falls. None of your examples did. There is no evidence that bitcoin is (or is about to enter in) a "final" bubble ...​

So you're saying it will go up forever? You're saying that its value is intrinsic and not based on a continuous supply of purchasers? You're saying that there will be no final bubble? That people collect cryptos the way they collect stamps? Do they paste Bitcoin into albums? I think not. Therefore they're not like stamps.
 
Craig B said:
... Bitcoin is nothing like that. It has already outlasted your examples many fold and it has always recovered from serious price falls. None of your examples did. There is no evidence that bitcoin is (or is about to enter in) a "final" bubble ...​

So you're saying it will go up forever? You're saying that its value is intrinsic and not based on a continuous supply of purchasers? You're saying that there will be no final bubble? That people collect cryptos the way they collect stamps? Do they paste Bitcoin into albums? I think not. Therefore they're not like stamps.
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Person A buys a stamp collection. It has value because people value rare historical art. It is art, and it will not be seen again, and appreciates steadily. He gives it to his son and says this is to pay for your college tuition in five years time.

Person B buys five bitcoins at $19,000 ea and gets a piece of paper saying he owns the coins. He gives it to his son and says this is to pay for your college tuition in five years time. Son says, gee thanks Dad, I think it will also buy me a car to drive to college - and if I am really lucky, I won't have to go to college because I will be able to retire.

The lesson to be learned here is -

The apple does not fall far from the tree. ;)

He can show his friends the bit of paper for a while before he has to get a job.
 
Here we go again.
The hourly chart says sell, just like the 3 hour chart a few days ago, which yielded a 1200 dollar directional sell opportunity.
Current price 10439.
 
Samson on 22nd February said:
The algorithm generated a powerful sell signal on a 3 hour chart basis at 10,680. I would assess this as having a 75% chance of driving the price down to 8700
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Samson said:
Here we go again.
The hourly chart says sell, just like the 3 hour chart a few days ago, which yielded a 1200 dollar directional sell opportunity.
Current price 10439.
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You forgot to include a percentage this time.
 
psionl0 said:
Trust you to focus on the one thing I didn't say.

When are you going to get it into your head that I am the only person here who is not making a prediction?
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You're probably the only one who doesn't realise you're making a most improbable implicit prediction. Your statements only make any sense (and even then not much) on the supposition that you are predicting that Bitcoin will never fall permanently in price, and that purchasers of it - at whatever price they bought it - will never suffer substantial irretrievable loss. That is what you are predicting.
 
Craig B said:
You're probably the only one who doesn't realise you're making a most improbable implicit prediction. Your statements only make any sense (and even then not much) on the supposition that you are predicting that Bitcoin will never fall permanently in price, and that purchasers of it - at whatever price they bought it - will never suffer substantial irretrievable loss. That is what you are predicting.
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Stuff and nonsense!

Saying that there is no evidence to support your soothsaying doesn't mean that there is evidence to support the opposite soothsaying.
 
psionl0 said:
Stuff and nonsense!

Saying that there is no evidence to support your soothsaying doesn't mean that there is evidence to support the opposite soothsaying.
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Quite so. That is why I eschew "soothsaying", and I have quoted my reluctance to do so. The fact that you pay no attention to what I say, is not an indication that I am paying no attention to what I say.
 
psionl0 said:
The current price is still $10,000+. I don't know what price you think it should be before you say it is "worth something".
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I think that's a totally fair point. So long as it's valued, bitcoin has value.
 
phiwum said:
I think that's a totally fair point. So long as it's valued, bitcoin has value.
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It is entirely fair. Bitcoin has a price, therefore at least a temporary "value".

During the tulip bubble tulips had value, and they still do, only now they have much less value in relation to other commodities than they did in 1637.

Before we know how best to approach Bitcoin, it's desirable to know where its value comes from. What gives it a value? Pure speculation or usefulness?
 
psionl0 said:
:jaw-dropp


Bitcoin has nothing in common with the tulip bubble.
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You keep stating that. But you offer no argument. Like the tulip bubble, BTC has been the pretext for a speculative mania. You are saying it has nothing in common because you effectively predict that unlike tulips, BTC will go up and never come down.

If that's not what you're saying, how have the two bubble manias nothing in common? The source of revenue is the same. Zero. There is no revenue.The source of value is the same: a prediction that there are people out there willing to pay more than I paid to buy BTC.

The only obvious difference is to the advantage of tulips. They are physically pretty. BTC has no physical form at all. If that's the nothing in common you're referring to, good and well.
 
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Craig B said:
It is entirely fair. Bitcoin has a price, therefore at least a temporary "value".

During the tulip bubble tulips had value, and they still do, only now they have much less value in relation to other commodities than they did in 1637.

Before we know how best to approach Bitcoin, it's desirable to know where its value comes from. What gives it a value? Pure speculation or usefulness?
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Sure, I didn't mean to imply any long term value.

There's no intrinsic value in bitcoin, unlike in certain precious metals, say[1]. But it is silly to say that, at present, bitcoin has no value, since people value it.

[1] even in this case, value depends on people valuing it, arguably.
 
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