School shooting Florida

[ponderingturtle]

Against a dog, you'd be better off with pepper spray or a heavy stick. A dog can get his teeth in your leg pretty solidly while you're trying to stab it. And if the police get involved, they universally do not see a "big knife" as a tool of self-defense, even against animals.

Of course the cops will kill your for carrying a stick to defend yourself from dogs.

 

[phiwum]

we HAVE given up Democracy as designed in 1788.
There was a novel aspect to include minorities and women in the vote, in case you haven't noticed.

Yes, changes have been made, agreed.

It simply does not follow that whatever we have done for a long time is due for a change. Changes ought to be argued on the merits of the change. This should really be obvious.

 

[theprestige]

There really isn't. A 'right' is something that enough people believe is a right at the time. There are no such things as born human rights, there are only enumerated rights, gained by force of numbers or force of arms.

"Rights" are situational, not a fundamental part of being a human.

It's the assumption that rights exist whether they are recognized or not, that justifies the use of force to compel their adoption.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Getting back to this post:

Because it was a gun free zone?

BTW, why aren't gun free zones not working like the fantasy being sold?

Got any stats to back your assertion up? The idea is to keep kids from bringing weapons to school. Some kids tend to get mad and shoot people they are arguing with if they have a gun handy.

The goal was never to stop mass shooters who almost always are not looking for an unarmed target. Heck most of these kinds of shooters are suicidal so why would they need a gun-free zone target?

Citizens saving the public does happen.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...er-shoots-gunman-met-0420-20150419-story.html

Now if you would be so kind as to answer my question? Why are people so upset that the "good guys with guns" AKA the deputies did not respond properly if "good guys with guns" don't solve problems?

This is a straw man. No one is upset about good guys with guns. We are upset that an unstable teenager with impulse control problems can easily go out and by an AR-15.

 

[jimbob]

Or even, if you won guns why is it so hard to store them properly. Gun safes are cheaper than most guns and trigger locks are cheaper still. A decent locking file cabinet could be good enough to store ammo.

Requiring safe storage of firearms and ammo should be an easy get for any legislation, but the organization that represents "responsible gun owners" has been against it for decades.

Indeed. At the least I would require mandatory third-party insurance for gun owners. If it's good enough for car drivers (I'm insured to several million 3rd party on my bicycle, as well as on my car) it should be good enough for something that is inherently more dangerous.

 

[Civet]

Indeed. At the least I would require mandatory third-party insurance for gun owners. If it's good enough for car drivers (I'm insured to several million 3rd party on my bicycle, as well as on my car) it should be good enough for something that is inherently more dangerous.

Not sure about the details, but I think the recent boycott actually targeted companies that provided insurance to gun owners. Not sure what the logic was.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Whoa, a pro-gun post from SG. I almost got my CCW license after an encounter with a rather large dog on a hiking trail. Everyone thinks their dog is the nicest friendliest thing in the world, some really aren't. I do carry a big lockable knife now though.

I have bear spray for the dogs.

 

[crescent]

Not sure about the details, but I think the recent boycott actually targeted companies that provided insurance to gun owners. Not sure what the logic was.

Which boycott? The very recent boycott threats include companies that provide discounts to NRA members. That's different than just providing insurance for gun owners.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm not so convinced, in this case, given the more specific actual threat, which was to remove a part of a pending bill.

It would lose in court. You can't use your office to punish people with certain political POVs.

Delta is also a huge employer in that state which is why they have the tax break in the first place.

It's a hollow threat.

 

[Civet]

Which boycott? The very recent boycott threats include companies that provide discounts to NRA members. That's different than just providing insurance for gun owners.

Again, not sure about all of the details, but I don't think these particular guys were being pressured for providing discounts, but for doing business with/through the NRA:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nger-sell-nra-endorsed-policies-idUSKCN1GB06O
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/02/27/481675.htm

 

[crescent]

Again, not sure about all of the details, but I don't think these particular guys were being pressured for providing discounts, but for doing business with/through the NRA:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nger-sell-nra-endorsed-policies-idUSKCN1GB06O
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/02/27/481675.htm

Interesting. They were providing insurance to cover legal fees and lawsuit payouts associated with the use of guns for self defense. This was not liability insurance for accidents, but instead coverage for actual intentional use. I didn't know that was a thing. One of the companies pulled out several months ago. The program was already under investigation.

The second article mentions (briefly at the end) that MetLife is discontinuing discounts offered to NRA members. That's more what I was thinking of.

 

[smartcooky]

Get out in the real world much?

Pretty sure there is a need to carry a gun when you are out and about in polar bear territory.

I don't have a gun and I'm very much for regulations and restrictions, but a woman hiking alone in the wilderness would have every reason to feel better carrying a gun, not for bears but for encountering less than honorable men on the trail.

There have been a few times I was car camping alone. I was nervous not having a gun. I've also hiked alone and hesitate to do so while having a gun would alleviate that concern to some degree.

I suggest your assertion is incredibly arrogant.

I think IanS is really inferring something like....

Having a gun to go target shooting is a "want" not a "need"
Having a gun to go hunting is a "want" not a "need"*
Having a gun to go shooting up stuff in your back yard is a "want" not a "need"

Having a gun for self defence might be a need*, but if there weren't so many guns around in the hands of loonies & screwballs, there wouldn't be a need. People in civilised countries seem to manage quite well without them.

* those living in the wilderness have a legit need to hunt, and to carry for protection against dangerous animals. Those living in suburban America do not.

Having a gun because the Big Bad Federal Gubmint is out to get ya is neither a "need" nor a "want".. its just paranoid fantasy.

 

[smartcooky]

Interesting. They were providing insurance to cover legal fees and lawsuit payouts associated with the use of guns for self defense. This was not liability insurance for accidents, but instead coverage for actual intentional use. I didn't know that was a thing. One of the companies pulled out several months ago. The program was already under investigation.

The second article mentions (briefly at the end) that MetLife is discontinuing discounts offered to NRA members. That's more what I was thinking of.

The landslide of companies abandining the NRA is just beginning

 

[Civet]

The landslide of companies abandining the NRA is just beginning

I've yet to hear of them losing a single major donor. That's what I'd consider a major change.

 

[Ambrosia]

Have you ever heard of someone who thought they were saying something in private, but a hot mike recorded what they said. Technically, I guess that's not private, but the person speaking thought it was.

Here's a quote from Diane Feinstein, one or the more rabit gun grabbers in Congress.

There are several problems with that. i) this is an interview question from a 60 minutes interview. Not a hot mike accidentally picking up "privately held views"

ii) this is a rabid anti gun persons opinion. The whole gun argument is controlled by extremists from either end. Don't listen to extremists, find a better compromise.

iii) this is from 1995. 1995. 23 years ago. Twenty three! The world has changed a lot in the past 2 decades.

Saying that xyz extremist is representative of the views of the majority of people that want to enact better gun control in the US is just wrong.

I get from your posts that you are ex military and are pro owning and using guns. There's nothing wrong with that.

I do think that if you believe that a registration scheme for guns that treats gun ownership for some categories of arms as a privilege and not a right as the thin end of the wedge, so that later people can take away all the guns, then you might want to re examine your point of view.

I don't see why the 2nd amendment in the US doesn't mean that anyone can get a basic gun (shotgun/single shot rifle/low capacity handgun) or similar but then there are a lot more extra hoops to jump through if you want to own higher powered arms, semi-auto arms, greater numbers of guns etc. Why must it mean that almost anyone can buy many high powered arms with minimal paperwork?

Wanna buy an AR-15? sure you need to take this course on gun safety and have suitable storage at your residence and pass this very stringent background check. What would be wrong with a system like that?

 

[smartcooky]

I've yet to hear of them losing a single major donor. That's what I'd consider a major change.

True, but the pressure is building. Enough pressure, and the NRA becomes a pariah (if it isn't already in some quarters).

Meanwhile, I think some people are underestimating just how different it is this time. I lived through two times of massive change when I grew up, one directly impacted on this country one didn't.

The first was the Civil Rights Movement, the second was the protests against the Vietnam War. In both cases, the driving force behind the change was young people, driving out the old guard and the old ideas. This is what is happening now... the youth of America has got a bone to pick with the gun lobby and it looks like they are not going to let go of it any time soon.

 

[crescent]

NRA Spokeswoman Deletes 'anti-Semitic' 2010 Tweet After Battle With Sarah Silverman

National Rifle Association spokeswoman Dana Loesch deleted Monday a 2010 tweet of hers that began to resurface late last week as other Twitter users accused Loesch of anti-Semitism.

The October 2010 tweet from Loesch read: "I bet Rick Sanchez was fired by a Jew."

Her tweet was in response to CNN's firing of the daytime anchor a day after he told a radio interviewer that Jon Stewart, who is Jewish, was a bigot and that “everybody that runs CNN is a lot like Stewart.”

 

[quadraginta]

Payback for not giving NRA-members discounts:

Georgia Republicans a threating Delta to re-instate their NRA-partner program or else:

http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/26/news/companies/delta-nra-georgia-republican/index.html

At least they aren't fooling around with any of that sissy quid pro quo pussyfooting around anymore.

They're going for straightforward, unadulterated extortion.

And proud of it.

 

[William Parcher]

Sheriff says he got 23 calls about shooter's family, but records show more

As critics have taken aim at law enforcement for missing warning signs about South Florida school shooter Nikolas Cruz, public records have emerged that conflict with Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel's statements about the number of times deputies were dispatched to the shooter's home.

Records obtained from the sheriff's office by CNN show the law enforcement agency received at least 45 calls for service relating to Cruz or his brother from 2008 to 2017, before the attack at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland on Feb. 14. The sheriff's office has insisted it received no more than 23 calls for service regarding Cruz or his family...

On Saturday, the sheriff's office reiterated that lower figure, releasing this public statement: "Since 2008, BSO responded to 23 incidents where previous contact was made with the killer or his family. STOP REPORTING 39; IT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE." That day, he (Sheriff Israel) made the same claim in a letter to the governor...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/us/parkland-shooter-cruz-sheriff-calls-invs/index.html

 

[William Parcher]

Florida school shooter could have fired many more bullets

The man who killed 17 people at a South Florida high school had more than half his rounds remaining when he dropped his rifle and fled, a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation told CNN.

The shooter had fired about 150 times when he dropped his AR-15-style rifle and escaped from school property by blending in with fleeing students. He left 180 rounds of ammo unused, the official said.

There is no explanation for why the shooter stopped, the official said. The ammunition magazines he carried, including the one found in the rifle, had swastikas etched in them, the official said.

Investigators have found indications that the shooter may have tried to break a window, which leads them to believe he wanted to use the area as a sniper's perch to shoot outside. The windows are hurricane-proof and didn't break.

A staff member at the high school told CNN the room where the shooter may have attempted to break a window was on the third floor of the 1200 building. The corner room has a view of the senior parking lot and the campus oval, an outdoor seating area that funnels students into parking areas...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/us/florida-school-shooter-ammunition-left/index.html