School shooting Florida

[lobosrul5]

It's essential also to keep in mind that if you allow any guns at all to be kept by members of the public in their own homes, then it's impossible to keep those guns out of the hands of people who develop dangerous psychological, emotional, or mental problems etc. And the reason is that people who are perfectly stable and in full reasoned self-control one week, may very easily become lethally unstable and mentally out-of-control the following week or month or year ...

... that can happen in any country. In fact does happen in every country. People in the UK or Finland or Germany are not immune to those same psychological and mental problems. But in those countries (and all of Europe afaik) very few of those people will have any guns in the first place ... they did not own guns when they were entirely stable and psychologically in good self-control, and there is therefore no instant access to guns when sudden changes in their life may precipitate various psychological, emotional, and mental problems ...

... but the huge difference in the USA is that when perfectly stable people with a valid gun license and a house full of weapons, suddenly start to suffer from any number of psychological or mental problems or just perceived deep grudges against various people, in the USA many of those individuals can just pick up a gun and take out revenge on other people in the streets around them.

There isn't really any such thing as a "gun license" in the US. Certainly not at the federal level.

 

[Ron Swanson]

In the UK we are limited to 2 packets (total 32 pills I think) of Asprin/Panadol etc any one shop.

I'm sure you can buy a lot more bullets than that in one go.

LOL ... 32 pills per purchase? ... how much does that cost?

I just bought a 750 count Acetaminophen container for $9

 

[MikeG]

There isn't really any such thing as a "gun license" in the US. Certainly not at the federal level.

Exactly. Why not?

 

[Checkmite]

Statement by Casey Cagle the Lt Governor of Georgia

"I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA. Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back."

Someone really relies on those frequent flyer miles.

 

[jimbob]

However the argument* seems to be that it would cost more to train US troops if there weren't semiautomatic rifles available to people with grudges.

Certainly, that's not the argument. Rather, it is that a well armed populace is easier to train and that we're abysmal at detecting who has grudges.

Now, I'm not firmly on the pro gun side at all, but straw man arguments don't help.

It wasn't straw as much as me channelling ponderingturtle, given the inanity of the arguments around that.

I did make a very slight logical leap - using a consequence of the status quo as an explicit price worth paying, instead of an implicit one.

But mainly it was the inanity of the idea that people with experience of shooting handguns, or even semiautomatic rifles are going to be so much easier to train than those who haven't learned any bad habits.

Given the number of accidental firearms deaths that would be classed as negligent discharges, I think that there are a lot of people learning bad habits. Many of whom would want to join the military.

 

[MikeG]

LOL ... 32 pills per purchase? ... how much does that cost?

I just bought a 750 count Acetaminophen container for $9

And when we stopped being able to do that a few years ago, the suicide rate by paracetamol overdose dropped markedly. I'll accept the inconvenience of having to buy small blister packs if it saves the lives of a few dozen people every year. Societal good, and all that.

 

[jimbob]

LOL ... 32 pills per purchase? ... how much does that cost?

I just bought a 750 count Acetaminophen container for $9

Generic, maybe 30p

The reason being that it *does* reduce suicide and for a method that ends up being quite unpleasant, but seems fairly non-scary at the time.

 

[Bob001]

Exactly. Why not?

You've heard of the Second Amendment, right? Beyond that, firearms are largely regulated at the state and local level. Some states and cities -- Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York City, Chicago -- impose pretty strict rules regarding buying and keeping firearms, but in most of the country, not so much.

 

[baron]

And when we stopped being able to do that a few years ago, the suicide rate by paracetamol overdose dropped markedly. I'll accept the inconvenience of having to buy small blister packs if it saves the lives of a few dozen people every year. Societal good, and all that.

Although I doubt suicide from Lemsip has markedly declined, being that no such instance has occurred in history.

To avoid this going to AHH I need to mention guns... guns... erm, I don't know... it's probably easier to buy three guns in the US than three packets of Lemsip in the UK, how about that.

 

[Thermal]

Statement by Casey Cagle the Lt Governor of Georgia

"I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA. Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back."

If Delta doesn't give a voluntary special discount to a private organization, then they are 'attacking conservatives' and subject to punitive tax measures from government?

 

[MikeG]

You've heard of the Second Amendment, right?........

You've read some of this thread, right?

There is nothing in the second amendment to say that weapons can't be licensed, or registered, nor that government can't keep a central list of those registered, nor that the right to bear arms can't be controlled by a test of competence or (mental) fitness, or limited by age. Sooner or later you (collective you) have got to get beyond the asinine "you've heard of the 2nd amendment, right?" and realise that you can't pile up the blame for every bit of gun-loving stupidity on the altar of the 2nd amendment.

 

[Andy_Ross]

And when we stopped being able to do that a few years ago, the suicide rate by paracetamol overdose dropped markedly. I'll accept the inconvenience of having to buy small blister packs if it saves the lives of a few dozen people every year. Societal good, and all that.

The problem with Paracetamol is that those attempting suicide weren't killing themselves but were destroying their kidneys and livers with the overdose.

 

[Andy_Ross]

If they do give guns to school staff, does the Librarian get a silencer as well?

 

[Thermal]

You've heard of the Second Amendment, right? Beyond that, firearms are largely regulated at the state and local level. Some states and cities -- Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York City, Chicago -- impose pretty strict rules regarding buying and keeping firearms, but in most of the country, not so much.

In NJ, one submits to a criminal and mental health background check, is fingerprinted, has to provide references of good character, and wait about three months to acquire a firearms ID card...to buy a BB gun. Just a reminder that the whole of the US is not the OK Corral

 

[cullennz]

All purchases of codeine here have to be recorded and name and address taken.

Only from pharmacys in small packets or if you want larger it has to be a prescription.

They are talking about even making the small packets prescription at the moment

 

[Bob001]

You've read some of this thread, right?

There is nothing in the second amendment to say that weapons can't be licensed, or registered, nor that government can't keep a central list of those registered, nor that the right to bear arms can't be controlled by a test of competence or (mental) fitness, or limited by age. Sooner or later you (collective you) have got to get beyond the asinine "you've heard of the 2nd amendment, right?" and realise that you can't pile up the blame for every bit of gun-loving stupidity on the altar of the 2nd amendment.

I'm not defending gun lunacy. I'm saying that the Second Amendment is the answer to your question: It is the justification/rationalization for our current state. What it actually means has been the subject of extensive debate. As I noted, the courts, even in the Heller decision, have upheld the right of legislators to impose reasonable restrictions and limitations regarding firearms at the state and local levels. But that's mostly not where the money or the votes are.

 

[MikeG]

The problem with Paracetamol is that those attempting suicide weren't killing themselves but were destroying their kidneys and livers with the overdose.

Some were doing that, but lots were dying. It really did change the suicide rate.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Certainly, that's not the argument. Rather, it is that a well armed populace is easier to train and that we're abysmal at detecting who has grudges.

That is not a common argument from the progun side which tends to be more focused on being pro domestic terrorism against a hypothetical tryanical government or invasion(from space? what nation could invade the US we have a bigger military than everyone who could possibly project their force on our shores).

And for the military does it find in general casual shooters to be advantageous?

 

[Nessie]

And when we stopped being able to do that a few years ago, the suicide rate by paracetamol overdose dropped markedly. I'll accept the inconvenience of having to buy small blister packs if it saves the lives of a few dozen people every year. Societal good, and all that.

Americans don't do society like we do. It is far more me than we.

 

[phiwum]

In the UK we are limited to 2 packets (total 32 pills I think) of Asprin/Panadol etc any one shop.

I'm sure you can buy a lot more bullets than that in one go.

Do you find that a reasonable restriction? Maybe I don't know the harms of aspirin, but I'd kinda like the ability to buy more than that.