School shooting Florida

[Bob001]

.....
Lots countries allow civilians to have automatic weapons like AR 15s and the types of weapon commonly associated with mass shootings;
....

1/ AR15s are not automatic weapons. As sold to civilians, they are semi-autos.

2/ Did you read your own list? What firearms civilians can own varies by country. But every other country requires a government license to buy and keep firearms, with additional permits for particular kinds of firearms or uses, and usually there are rules about how they must be stored. The U.S. is the only major country where AR15s are a casual over-the-counter purchase, like aspirin, and, except for some cities, they can usually be carried in public openly.

Yeah, every country has crazy people, and many allow guns in civilian hands. But no other major country (I suspect Yemen, Syria etc. are exceptions) makes it so easy for crazy people to get guns.

 

[sadhatter]

Only 150,000 American schoolkids have experienced school shootings since Colombine.

I fail to see what the problem is.

What is that in per cent of the children that have passed through the school system since then?

 

[Checkmite]

Did the cop know this (90-seconds after the shooting started).

How could he know, if he never bothered to go and check? He heard gunshots and instantly decided based solely on hearing gunshots and no other information whatsoever that he should run outside and hide and simply let the students and staff of the school die until somebody else showed up to deal with the problem.

 

[MikeG]

What is that in per cent of the children that have passed through the school system since then?

The sheer inhumanity of such a question is jaw dropping.

Honestly? That's really your response to the observation that so many kids have been affected by having their school-mates shot? It's not just an inane attempt at debate point-scoring?

 

[Steve]

Only 150,000 American schoolkids have experienced school shootings since Colombine.

I fail to see what the problem is.

What is that in per cent of the children that have passed through the school system since then?

Doesn't matter. 150,000 children exposed to gunfire that causes injury and death in their schools is 150,000 too many.

 

[Steve]

The sheer inhumanity of such a question is jaw dropping.

Honestly? That's really your response to the observation that so many kids have been affected by having their school-mates shot? It's not just an inane attempt at debate point-scoring?

Also this!

 

[phiwum]

And?

And he answered my question.

 

[arthwollipot]

Lethal force is the only way to assuredly stop lethal force. Good luck with anything different. Moses Browning and Sam Colt made everyone equal.

No, that's absolutely a lie. As anyone with actual self-defense training knows. There are many options for non-lethal takedowns.

Granted it's harder when they're trying to shoot you. But in that situation you've rarely got time for any form of self defence of any kind anyway. If someone is about to shoot you, you're going to get shot and there's not a lot you can do about it. If you think you can quickdraw a concealed handgun, turn off the safety (you are carrying it with the safety on, right?), aim and fire before someone who is already pointing a gun at you twitches their finger, then you're just delusional. Wild West fantasies notwithstanding.

In a country where any attacker is not expected to have a gun - ie, any developed country except for America - then you absolutely do not require lethal force to defend yourself from an attacker.

 

[arthwollipot]

It's amazing how desperate the gun lovers are to pin the blame on the police for this massacre. Utterly amazing. Can anyone think why that might be?

They don't care what they pin the blame on - police, cowardice, "crazy people" (way to stigmatise mental health by the way). So long as the blame is anywhere except on the guns and the political and social structures that put them in the hands of... well, pretty much anyone.

 

[Andy_Ross]

misspost

 

[Andy_Ross]

The last successful invasion was in 1066. I am not worried about attack, such that the civilian population needs to arm.

It wasn't.

Glorious Revoloution

 

[arthwollipot]

Perhaps in your world. Not mine.

It's all the same world, and it's always bollocks. There are studies. This is just one of them.

 

[Nessie]

1/ AR15s are not automatic weapons. As sold to civilians, they are semi-autos.

2/ Did you read your own list? What firearms civilians can own varies by country. But every other country requires a government license to buy and keep firearms, with additional permits for particular kinds of firearms or uses, and usually there are rules about how they must be stored. The U.S. is the only major country where AR15s are a casual over-the-counter purchase, like aspirin, and, except for some cities, they can usually be carried in public openly.

Yeah, every country has crazy people, and many allow guns in civilian hands. But no other major country (I suspect Yemen, Syria etc. are exceptions) makes it so easy for crazy people to get guns.

My point stands, the availability of types of gun is not correlated to mass shootings. All those different countries have different types of firearm that civilians are allowed. There is no connecting between type of weapon and the instance of mass shooting.

 

[Craig B]

Of course there is a function for the police. But the police are, obviously, not omnipresent and, even when they are there, you can't rely on them to do anything to save you. The responsibility for saving you is, ultimately, your own. Unless the state is willing to take on the responsibility of protecting everyone, the notion that we should disarm ourselves is asinine.

"Asinine"? Here in the UK even the police don't carry weapons on normal duty, and nor do civilians possess them for personal protection. Yet the death rate from firearm crime is about one tenth of the US figure, last time I checked.

Who are the jackasses in this issue? The USA, or the other civilised countries?

 

[Thermal]

What is that in per cent of the children that have passed through the school system since then?

Jesus Christ.

What percentage and raw numbers of said children would you find tolerable?

Its a big zero from me.

 

[arthwollipot]

That's what I was wondering. Ours don't even have grilles or screens in front of the tellers. Just the countertop.

Ours don't even have tellers.

 

[Nessie]

It wasn't.

Glorious Revoloution

There was a lot of support for William of Orange in Britain. More so than for William the Conqueror.

 

[Thermal]

How could he know, if he never bothered to go and check? He heard gunshots and instantly decided based solely on hearing gunshots and no other information whatsoever that he should run outside and hide and simply let the students and staff of the school die until somebody else showed up to deal with the problem.

It was reported that Deputy Peterson radioed in a description of the shooter, so he did somehow get a look at the scenario. To some extent, he knew what was going on.

 

[Giz]

No, that's absolutely a lie. As anyone with actual self-defense training knows. There are many options for non-lethal takedowns.
... snip...

In a country where any attacker is not expected to have a gun - ie, any developed country except for America - then you absolutely do not require lethal force to defend yourself from an attacker.

This is silly. Tell any small statured folks who haven't spent inordinate amounts of time training to be living weapons that they had many options to prevent being mugged/raped/murdered. Options remotely as effective as drawing a gun.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Looks like the school was doing a terrible job teaching civics to the students:



The state governor is the boss of county sheriffs?

That's hillarious! I mean, the way you took this kid who found himself in the middle of a massacre in which seventeen of his fellow students were killed and thinks that someone in authority should stand up and take responsibility, and you just turned it around like that.. Man you're funny, you really showed us how foolish that kid is! Lucky you pointed that out, we might have missed the funny side of kids being killed or traumatised.