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Another inaccurate article on assault weapons.

Why are vehicles constructed in a way that allows them to exceed the speed limits?

An excellent question. I don't know. People would go mental at the thought. I'd love to see the moment someone told Clarkson.


Cars designed to be go 200 mph are, all other things being equal, much safer, when being driven at 70 mph than are cars that are designed to only go 70 mph. I don't think this justifies making cars that travel at 200 mph, it's just an observation.
 
The Second Amendment does allow for quite a bit more restrictive regulation than many people believe:

There’s No Gun Control Law Congress Could Possibly Pass That Won’t Survive in the Courts

On Friday, the 2nd Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals upheld yet another gun regulation, a New York City measure that sharply limits gun owners’ ability to transport their weapons. The decision serves as a reminder that virtually all gun control laws attainable in our current political climate will pass muster in the courts.
 
An excellent question. I don't know. People would go mental at the thought. I'd love to see the moment someone told Clarkson.


Cars designed to be go 200 mph are, all other things being equal, much safer, when being driven at 70 mph than are cars that are designed to only go 70 mph. I don't think this justifies making cars that travel at 200 mph, it's just an observation.

This is one of my points ... speeding causes 45,000 and deaths and countless injuries a year in North America every year ... technology exists to eliminate vehicles from driving over the speed limit

And in fact could be applied retroactively to virtually all vehicles that have a computer with a simple service call to the dealer

And YET? This simple solution is Not applied, no laws are made, they just keep making cars that can and WILL be driven illegaly AND the manufactures brag about it ... in essence KNOWINGLY promoting speeding ... AND knowing it will also kill people.

If THIS won't be fixed? 17 people shot? ... 125 people died from accidents caused by speeding that very same day AND EVERY DAY before that and EVERY day after that

If a simple law won't be applied to save 125 lives EVERY SINGLE day ...... how will they pass a law that MIGHT help save a few people a month?
 
Yeah it does. If the decisions of past courts are changeable by future courts then it's a worthwhile discussion to consider alternative interpretations of the second amendment that would allow controls on firearms that, under current interpretation, would not be allowed.
I agree. What I'm saying is that nobody around here actually does that. Nobody actually bothers to develop their own interpretation, and propose gun policy based on that interpretation and taking practical realities into account.

And for sure nobody around here attends to the fact that the courts have already done a lot of thinking about the practical realities. Even if they must arrive at different conclusions, they will still have to think through the same broad set of issues.

It's always, "the 2a doesn't rule out nuclear weapons, what now?" Ignoring that "now" actually consists of almost two hundred years of thinking about that very question. Like I said, whenever one of these threads pops up, everyone goes right back to first principles, as if they've never really thought about it before.

Personally, I believe the second amendment is a weight around the neck of potential American legislation designed to prevent nutters from killing people. Any attempt to introduce any legislation at all will always fall foul of "shall not be infringed". The moment you require someone to demonstrate a 'right' it ceases to be one and becomes a privilege instead. Any control of any sort will naturally infringe on the rights of lawful gun owners because the very act of asking them to demonstrate their lawfulness is an infringement.
See what I mean? The courts have actually done a *lot* of thinking about the problem of balancing human rights with human regulation. Over the years, the courts have even come up with a workable solution. But you write here as if it's an intractable problem that nobody--including you--has ever actually bothered to grapple with in any meaningful or useful way.

ETA: Take the right to life, or to liberty, or to property, for example. The courts have recognized that these are rights that shall not be infringed. But the courts have also established that sometimes, under some circumstances, infringement is acceptable. And in general everybody agrees that this judicial compromise is acceptable, that it satisfactorily balances society's competing goods. The weight hanging "around the neck of potential American legislation designed to prevent nutters from killing people" is not that it falls afoul of "shall not be infringed", but that it falls afoul of meeting the courts' long-established and generally-accepted legal standard for permitting such infringements. But nobody here--including yourself--ever moves on from "shall not be infringed" to "what have the courts actually ruled on the question of infringement, and what kind of policy would be consistent with those rulings?"

Let alone moving on from there to "here is the court's reasoning, and here's where I dissent from the court and why, and here's the policy I would propose and why." Like I said, whenever one of these threads pops up, everybody resets back to pristine ignorance and struggling with first principles.
 
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Then fight for its repeal.

Repeal is not necessary. The courts have determined again and again that the Congress and the states can impose restrictions on buying, owning and using firearms. The Heller decision overruled a complete ban on civilian handguns in D.C. But D.C. can -- and does -- still require purchasers to apply for permits, be fingerprinted, be trained, submit to background checks and comply with other regulations intended to strongly discourage criminals and the disturbed. It also restricts purchases and possession of ammunition. And it's all legal.
https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/firearm-registration-general-requirements-study-guide
 
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See what I mean? The courts have actually done a *lot* of thinking about the problem of balancing human rights with human regulation. Over the years, the courts have even come up with a workable solution. But you write here as if it's an intractable problem that nobody--including you--has ever actually bothered to grapple with in any meaningful or useful way.

Yes. I think every "interpretation" is, in fact, a total fudge of a piece of, in light of advances in technology, an appallingly worded piece of legislation.

It's an intractable problem that the USA only pretends it's solved.
 
This is one of my points ... speeding causes 45,000 and deaths and countless injuries a year in North America every year ... technology exists to eliminate vehicles from driving over the speed limit

And in fact could be applied retroactively to virtually all vehicles that have a computer with a simple service call to the dealer

And YET? This simple solution is Not applied, no laws are made, they just keep making cars that can and WILL be driven illegaly AND the manufactures brag about it ... in essence KNOWINGLY promoting speeding ... AND knowing it will also kill people.

If THIS won't be fixed? 17 people shot? ... 125 people died from accidents caused by speeding that very same day AND EVERY DAY before that and EVERY day after that

If a simple law won't be applied to save 125 lives EVERY SINGLE day ...... how will they pass a law that MIGHT help save a few people a month?

Except speed wasn't the cause of the accident in every one of those accidents. Distracted driving and DUI being the other 2 major causes. Even if excessive speed was the cause, it may have been excessive only for that road, or current condition, but still under the fastest legal speed limit in the country.

Edit: Oh and not wearing a seatbelt is an enormous factor. About half of deaths were not wearing their belt.
 
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......
Now, the devil would be in deciding what function(s) should be included. And the unintended effects; your proposal just banned all the semi-auto .22 rifles out there :)
....

But that would be a drafting issue. You could exempt ".22 caliber rifles with tubular magazines that hold ten or fewer rounds," and define ".22 caliber" to mean as commonly used now, so somebody couldn't modify a .223 round and claim it's exempt. The language is the smallest of the problems.
 
Except speed wasn't the cause of the accident in every one of those accidents. Distracted driving and DUI being the other 2 major causes. Even if excessive speed was the cause, it may have been excessive only for that road, or current condition, but still under the fastest legal speed limit in the country.

Edit: Oh and not wearing a seatbelt is an enormous factor. About half of deaths were not wearing their belt.

You seem to have missed my point :(
 
Yes. I think every "interpretation" is, in fact, a total fudge of a piece of, in light of advances in technology, an appallingly worded piece of legislation.

It's an intractable problem that the USA only pretends it's solved.

Justified infringement on human rights is an entirely tractable problem that pretty much every modern nation has solved, and all of them in much the same way. The wording of the legislation (I assume you mean the 2nd amendment) isn't even a factor in solving this problem.
 
Justified infringement on human rights is an entirely tractable problem that pretty much every modern nation has solved, and all of them in much the same way.
....

"Infringement" sounds like something that shouldn't happen. A better word would be "limitations." Every Constitutional right is subject to limitations, as prescribed by legislatures and courts. See if "freedom of speech" protects you against going to jail for fraud or inciting to riot.
 
"Infringement" sounds like something that shouldn't happen. A better word would be "limitations." Every Constitutional right is subject to limitations, as prescribed by legislatures and courts. See if "freedom of speech" protects you against going to jail for fraud or inciting to riot.
I have a few minor philosophical quibbles, but nothing that touches the main point: That the problem of limiting rights, as you put it, is solveable, and has been largely solved, for the right to bear arms as much as for any other right. On this point, it seems we agree.
 
.... When the Constitution was written, "firearms" were black powder muzzleloaders, and for most of U.S. history until the '70s, there was never any doubt that authorities are entitled to regulate the sale, possession and use of firearms. That's when the slippery slope started -- in the wrong direction.
So firearms were muzzleloaders? As in muzzleloaders were state of the art and nothing better was around in 1791; the date the first ten amendments were ratified?

Breech loading weapons have been around for a long time. The Ferguson rifle was used since 1772. Arguing that muzzle loading guns were the limit of the imagination of the framers is misleading at best.
 
My impression is that the stronger one's opinions about gun control, the less one knows about guns. But mostly I only encounter people who want more gun control. Perhaps people who want less gun control are more moderate in their ignorance.
 
:confused: But plenty of firearms are already banned at the federal level. By law, not decree.
Are these new laws? Got a link? I can own a machine gun without a license, no problem provided I buy one made before May 1986. If I want newer, I can just get an FFL/SOT.

Please provide a link to the federal law banning many firearms.
 
To make up for being bad marksmen?
How does a rapid followup shot make up for poor marksmanship? Assuming the prey is on the move after the first shot, is the lousy marksman going to be able to hit the prey just because he can shoot again quickly? Explain this to us please.
 
Yes, there is some sort of historical exception for those. Good lord, a 2 gauge rifle means an 8oz round ball. I'll refrain from ever firing one. But, I read an article somewhere years ago that modern 12 gauge and 10 gauge rifled barrels are in a sort of legal conundrum.
Shotguns greater than a half inch bore can be owned by those without a license at the whim of the Attorney General of the United States as they are deemed acceptable for sporting use.

18 U.S. Code § 921 - Definitions
(4) The term “destructive device” means—
....
(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter;....
 
That is exactly what would happen, as is the case now with other prohibited objects and substances. I doubt that it would take 100 years.

An alternative would be to license semi-autos the same way full machine guns are licensed now. You can buy one and keep it and take it to the range, but it's registered and you pay a tax and pass a background check. People who really feel strongly about it would be able to follow a legal path.

This would be a decent compromise. Have to wait for the temperature in the room to drop down a little though. I suggested something similar on the Florida shooting thread and was basically told that it was a proposal that would change nothing so that I could use a weapon of war like a toy.
 

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