• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Another inaccurate article on assault weapons.

The SYLE of firearm is of NO CONSEQUENCE whatsoever ...

For example in Canada ... self loading (semi auto) firearms that shoot the popular Caliber .223 and/or 5.56mm bullets are available in multiple platforms ... some restricted, some prohibited, while others are just over the counter target or hunting guns.

The capabilities are the same, why on earth do people worry about the cosmetics?
 
Well then, this whole thread is a red herring when it comes to the discussion of gun legislation. My apologies for being off-topic along with half or more of the posts in this thread. :rolleyes:
Instead of being sorry you could start another thread and stay on topic.
 
:rolleyes:

See my above post (#70).

Pages 32-33

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#32
Sources of Guns

To address the criminal misuse of firearms leading to death or injury, it is important to understand how “firearms move from lawful commerce into the hands of criminals” (ATF, 2011, p. i). A survey of gun owners between 2005 and 2010 found that an average of 232,400 guns were stolen each year (Langton, 2012). Although research in the 1980s suggested that criminals acquired guns primarily through theft (Wright and Rossi, 1986), more recent prisoner surveys suggest that stolen guns account for only a small percentage of guns used by convicted criminals (Harlow, 2001; Zawitz, 1995). It is, however, unclear whether prisoners are willing to admit to gun thefts in government-conducted surveys. According to a 1997 survey of inmates, approximately 70 percent of the guns used or possessed by criminals at the time of their arrest came from family or friends, drug dealers, street purchases, or the underground market (Harlow, 2001). Another 14 percent of those surveyed bought or traded guns at retail stores, pawnshops, flea markets, or gun shows (Harlow, 2001). However, some experts question the validity of commonly used research methodologies for identifying crime-gun-trafficking prevalence, arguing that trafficking is more closely associated with gun scarcity than inappropriate acquisition from licensed gun dealers (Kleck and Wang, 2009). A better understanding of the validity of different methods to evaluate the sources of crime guns would help inform policies aimed at disrupting the flow of guns to criminals

Stolen appears more than once, which calls into question your analysis.

Not sure why the eye-roll, Giz is right that research isn't blocked; government funds can't be used (section titled "Impact of Existing Federal Restrictions on Firearm Violence Research", pages 23-24) and the government cannot maintain a database of gun owners, sales, or possession. That make sit difficult, but it's not disallowed. In fact, the CDC issues studies from after the time that regulation was passed.

And if you'd actually read my other comments, you'd have seen that I disagree both with the ban on a database AND disagree with limiting research.
 
Actually, assault rifle has a very specific definition that generally isn't in contention: A select-fire, magazine fed weapon designed for infantry use.

It's the made-up "assault weapon" term that's murky and ill-defined, and that's the one they used in the law.
....

Without reading the thread to the end, could you imagine a definition of "assault-style" rifle that could be banned for civilians? The problem with the assault-rifle ban was that it was largely based on easily alterable cosmetics. Could you imagine a ban based on functional considerations? Say any rifle with a self-loading, semi-auto mechanism, barrel shorter than 24", magazine larger than five rounds. That would allow hunters to keep their Browning BARS, Remington 1100s, etc., but would prohibit military-style weapons from people who dream of going to war against their government.
 
Last edited:
Pretty much. Handguns, often cheap revolvers and small-caliber semi-autos, make up the majority of gun deaths and gun crime in this country.

"Assault Weapons" make up a minority, but they're "flashier" and get press. Which is part of why they're focused on by both the ban-proponents and the shooters. IMHO I think that focus and attention is part of why mass shootings are occurring more often. There's such a storm of press and attention around all of these incidents, with the pundits arguing for weeks, and of course online: how many threads here are discussing the latest one? And that doesn't count the tweets and facebook posts and everything else. For a person that's already got issues, usually feels isolated, and wants to be noticed or prove they matter, what better way to get attention? And we sure give them attention afterwards.

AS to bans, it's an emotional reaction, not a rational one. Think about the arguments:

1. They're designed to kill (same as any weapon ever created, from the stone club to the nuke).
2. They look like military rifles (even though most of the military features are removed-no flash suppressor, no select-fire, etc., and there are other rifles with similar capabilities that wouldn't be classed as assault weapons)
3. They cause deaths and have no useful purpose (not true; they are used for varmint control, hunting, and defense as well as recreation. But you don't see this argument made against alcohol, whose ONLY purpose is recreation, and there are twice as many alcohol-related deaths each year as gun-related)

Add to that that most of those calling for firearms bans of various sorts have very little knowledge of firearms (i.e.-the assault weapons ban of 94), and that ignorance leads to ineffective legislation. Even for the goals they want, that seems odd. "Know your enemy" as a saying has been around quite a while, after all. I'd think if they were truly interested in a functional solution, they'd do some research...instead is mostly based on emotional factors (they look like military weapons, and militaries kill people!).

Now, that being said, we do need regulation improvements. I don't think a ban is politically achievable, practical, or functional. I've always been a proponent of a licensing system, much like a driver's license: An extensive background check initially to determine if you're eligible, along with a requirement for training on use, safety, storage, and law. Pass that, you get the license. License is revoked if you ever have a disqualifying event. Maybe a 4 or 5 year time limit after which a renewal is required (another background check, but maybe a quicker one this time, similar to what's done now, to keep costs lower).

And get rid of the stupid regulations that don't allow various gun records to be put in an electronic format and used efficiently.

But any sort of gun regulation is a treatment, not a cure. It's Tylenol for the fever, not an antibiotic to actually stop the infection. We need better mental health in this country, desperately. We need ways to identify those with problems and get them help before it turns into something like this...whether they choose a mass shooting, driving a car into a crowd, building a bomb, or whatever other method of mutual destruction they pick. We need to work on less tribalism, picking causes and sides and dying on ideological hills, and more pragmatism: being willing to include everyone in our democracy, and quit viewing compromise and negotiation as an evil. Compromise is, after all, the foundation of functional society.

But that's just my opinion, and I fully expect these comments to be twisted to strawmen, and to be hit with numerous insults about how I simply have a fetish to kill people, which is why I rarely post in gun threads. I don't need the ulcers.

This is well written, and well thought out. :thumbsup:
 
The SYLE of firearm is of NO CONSEQUENCE whatsoever ...

For example in Canada ... self loading (semi auto) firearms that shoot the popular Caliber .223 and/or 5.56mm bullets are available in multiple platforms ... some restricted, some prohibited, while others are just over the counter target or hunting guns.

The capabilities are the same, why on earth do people worry about the cosmetics?

Because they are ignorant similar to most commenting in this thread.
 
Listening to Marco Rubio's pathetic arguments on CNN's Town Hall tonight left me with a question to your oft repeated argument (same one Rubio makes) that gun regulations won't work because of the language used to describe banned or regulated weapons.

My question is, so what's your solution? Because this semantics argument is weak at best.

There are three separate laws in California addressing "assault weapons" and criminals inclined to do harm to others don't seem to comply with any of the statutes. We have very strict laws on the possession of National Firearms Act weapons and devices and that hasn't exactly been a success either.

Facts in evidence:



Celebratory gunfire in San Francisco, 6-12-2017. Gunfire starts at approx. 1:04, automatic weapons fire at 1:35 - keep in mind that S.F. has the strictest gun laws in the state.



Reveler films himself firing a full auto-Glock pistol into the air at a Sideshow in Oakland, California the end of January of this year. The firearm is wholly illegal and the extended magazine is as well. The individual ding the firing was also filmed by another sideshow participant and the video has been widely distributed, No arrest has been made.

I'm already on record here from 2012 with a sensible approach to gun control intended to protect 2nd Amendment rights and society at large, but as I posted back then there was something to piss off both sides of the debate:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9801187&postcount=1065
 
If you don't understand the technical details, how can you make an informed decision about policy?
First off, I will pay attention to the details once there's an actual policy proposal. For that it's worth, seeing as it's a given that I want far more gun control than whatever half-ass measures congress+admin hatches. Knowing the details doesn't help me decide whether to support the measure -- I want all that and more. Knowledge will help me measure my disappointment though.
 
First off, I will pay attention to the details once there's an actual policy proposal. For that it's worth, seeing as it's a given that I want far more gun control than whatever half-ass measures congress+admin hatches. Knowing the details doesn't help me decide whether to support the measure -- I want all that and more. Knowledge will help me measure my disappointment though.

Which exactly why the N.R.A. can successfully sell the idea that any restriction on firearms purchase, use or possession isn't anything other than a step towards eventually banning firearms.
 
.....
Reveler films himself firing a full auto-Glock pistol into the air at a Sideshow in Oakland, California the end of January of this year. The firearm is wholly illegal and the extended magazine is as well.
.....

Just curious. Is a "full-auto Glock" something that is actually marketed, or was a standard semi-auto Glock doctored? If the latter, what would Glock need to do to make such a modification impossible?
 
Which exactly why the N.R.A. can successfully sell the idea that any restriction on firearms purchase, use or possession isn't anything other than a step towards eventually banning firearms.
I had no idea that I, an anonymous person on the internet posting on a backwater forum, am so vastly influential.
 
He, he... Then what?

Show leadership.

Australia had a ******** of semi-automatics. None now, in civilian hands at least.

That you can't comprehend something like this says a lot about you and the US in general. It takes political and moral courage, both absent in the US today.

Oh, can posters stop talking about the use of semi automatics for hunting. Proper hunters do not need to tear their prey in two with weapons like this.
 
Just curious. Is a "full-auto Glock" something that is actually marketed, or was a standard semi-auto Glock doctored? If the latter, what would Glock need to do to make such a modification impossible?

The Glock 18 is the factory select fire version The selector is the switch on the rear side of the slide. They are not legal in the US, except for Government Agency and dealer sample. The first photo is an 18 kitted out with an extended barrel and stock for use as an SMG.

It is not possible to make it impossible to alter a firearm to full-auto. You can only make it more difficult.
 

Attachments

  • Glock18Roni-2a.jpg
    Glock18Roni-2a.jpg
    48.4 KB · Views: 4
  • rimg.jpg
    rimg.jpg
    37.1 KB · Views: 3
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom