How else are we supposed to talk about a society??? Were there good Germans in WW2? Sure. Was German society at the time totally disgusting and genocidal? Yes.
School shooting Florida
- Thread starter Darat
- Start date
- Status
How else are we supposed to talk about a society??? Were there good Germans in WW2? Sure. Was German society at the time totally disgusting and genocidal? Yes.
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
Then say "German society," or "many Germans." Don't say "Germans," especially when there are German people who agree with you posting in the thread.
Yeah, I'm arguing semantics. That's kind of what I do. HOW we say things matters.
None whatsoever. Especially indoor walls, but also bricks - see the deaths in Bloody Sunday, which included people in houses behind brick walls.
Well, there's your problem.
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2005
- Messages
- 96,955
Seriously, you are going to argue that bullets which liquify an organ can't go through a schoolroom wall?
There were numerous reports the day of the shooting by kids who said students crouched next to them were hit and even killed. It was clear the shooter was not in the room picking kids off.
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 27,488
It can happen under certain circumstances. It has not yet been confirmed to have happened at this school.
It matters, for purposes of not offending people, I guess. WHAT we say (whether something is true or not) is far more important than HOW it is said.
Is there a problem with men? Yes. Will that offend some men? The truth hurts, I guess.
lobosrul5
Philosopher
And its rated 12 in the UK and Germany... so whats that say about them? Some of the most violent and disturbing films are made in Europe. Watch High Tension (2003), French, if you don't believe me.
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
It shouldn't offend men to have it pointed out that men represent a disproportionate amount of violent crime perpetrators. That is just a fact. On the other hand, a statement like, "Men are naturally violent" will get people's hackles up. (Don't believe me, look at any sexual abuse/harassment thread.)
The two statements are not the same. Regardless, the conversation has moved on. I commented because I get really tired of the sweeping, negative generalizations about Americans that get tossed around so freely on this board. In a heightened emotional state over the gun problem, I stumbled upon yet another one, and took grievous offense. It wasn't just that post - it was the cumulative effect of constantly seeing my country **** upon, combined with being in an emotional mood.
How people choose to carry on a dialogue is up to them. But there's nothing wrong with pointing out what I see as errors in their method.
Last edited:
BobTheCoward
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2010
- Messages
- 22,789
It bums me out.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
Amazed that the mods have not moved against bob for his constant derail of threads.
I think they're going down a bad road. Fortunately, they have strict gun control laws.
I used to think like you do, and then we elected Trump. Now this country disgusts me and I'll probably leave when I'm financially secure enough to. It's not every American, not even a majority, but about 30% of Americans are deplorable disgusting people I don't want anything to do with.
But I don't want to derail the thread, so that's my last word on it.
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2005
- Messages
- 96,955
Yes it has been, unless you don't consider the kids in the rooms being shot at to be confirmation.
Here's one text:
Clark did not realize the shots were real until debris started falling from the room’s walls as bullets slammed in from outside. If the shooter was shooting through the glass in the door in that room, I don't think that is the comment you would have heard.
Obviously Cruz did a lot of shooting through the glass in the classroom doors. I suppose you might argue if he didn't see the kids inside the rooms he might not have shot randomly through the walls.
Last edited:
Belz...
Fiend God
You know, this is such a stupid question that I had to restart my answer several times. Where do you think the discussion is going if you just strawman me after my first reply to you? I think you should ask yourself why you went for misrepresentation and baiting rather than discussion.
Belz...
Fiend God
Women initiate violence towards their partners more often then men. We can play with statistics all day but they don't necessarily tell us what we think they tell us.
BobTheCoward
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2010
- Messages
- 22,789
Someone specifically asked for that number. I had it on hand.
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 27,488
I'm not sure that you are prepared to deal with real skepticism. The question is not whether these bullets could pass through walls. The question is did they pass through walls.
There is talk of him shooting through windows. A teacher was confirmed to have been shot dead through a wooden door. He was standing right up against it.
We just don't have confirmation yet about bullets going through walls here. We have one claim by Hannah.
We aren't supposed to do skepticism this way, and especially so on a skeptics forum.
Whether or not he actually shot through walls is irrelevant, at least to me.
My kids' elementary school is built with folding walls separating the classrooms, so that two classrooms could be combined into one. A little .22 could shoot through that and potentially still be lethal.
The greater point I meant to make by bringing it up is that retrofitting schools to be better protective from shooting (as endorsed by the NRA via Dana Loesch last night) would be extraordinarily expensive. In many cases it would be cheaper to demolish the existing buildings rather try to retrofit buildings (that were originally) built to normal American standards for interior walls and windows and such.
My kids' school is no doubt one of those. Locked outside doors, but several of them are glass and are next to floor to ceiling sized glass panels (that's how the Sandy Hook shooter got in). Very flimsy interior walls, many of them light enough to move when leaned upon - folding walls are common in American schools. Those walls would provide no meaningful protection against the sorts of ammo used by AR-15 or AK-47. The wall separating the hallways from the classrooms are more substantial, they might provide protection against common handgun ammo (.22, .38, 9mm)(depending on the propellant charge), but would still be useless for the higher velocity rifle ammo. Big windows facing from two walls of the library into interior hallways. Exterior walls are brick, but likely just a facade that would not be very protective, and at any rate there are a lot of exterior windows. It is a single story structure.
It would be no easy task to make this building safe from a person with a rifle.
The NRA (via Loesch) blamed the death toll partly failure to adopt their proposed standards for protective architecture. That proposal would be insanely expensive and not practical for a retrofit. There is a reason that only 150 schools out of tens of thousands have been built to that standard. We don't spend enough on education as it is, I doubt Republican politicians would be willing to spend the money to match that standard. I would guess it could run over $100 Billion to do it nationwide.
Its another stupid useless proposal that exists only to deflect action away from a meaningful solution.
My kids' elementary school is built with folding walls separating the classrooms, so that two classrooms could be combined into one. A little .22 could shoot through that and potentially still be lethal.
The greater point I meant to make by bringing it up is that retrofitting schools to be better protective from shooting (as endorsed by the NRA via Dana Loesch last night) would be extraordinarily expensive. In many cases it would be cheaper to demolish the existing buildings rather try to retrofit buildings (that were originally) built to normal American standards for interior walls and windows and such.
My kids' school is no doubt one of those. Locked outside doors, but several of them are glass and are next to floor to ceiling sized glass panels (that's how the Sandy Hook shooter got in). Very flimsy interior walls, many of them light enough to move when leaned upon - folding walls are common in American schools. Those walls would provide no meaningful protection against the sorts of ammo used by AR-15 or AK-47. The wall separating the hallways from the classrooms are more substantial, they might provide protection against common handgun ammo (.22, .38, 9mm)(depending on the propellant charge), but would still be useless for the higher velocity rifle ammo. Big windows facing from two walls of the library into interior hallways. Exterior walls are brick, but likely just a facade that would not be very protective, and at any rate there are a lot of exterior windows. It is a single story structure.
It would be no easy task to make this building safe from a person with a rifle.
The NRA (via Loesch) blamed the death toll partly failure to adopt their proposed standards for protective architecture. That proposal would be insanely expensive and not practical for a retrofit. There is a reason that only 150 schools out of tens of thousands have been built to that standard. We don't spend enough on education as it is, I doubt Republican politicians would be willing to spend the money to match that standard. I would guess it could run over $100 Billion to do it nationwide.
Its another stupid useless proposal that exists only to deflect action away from a meaningful solution.
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2005
- Messages
- 96,955
IOW you completely dismissed the text message I quoted as what, inconclusive?
What about just below that quote?
Don't talk to me about no true Scotsman.
Last edited:
- Status