Today's Mass Shooting

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ponderingturtle said:
As well as the point that their fears of a standing army has been at the least unwarranted in the case of the US, and the weapons being used are not exactly those that we would be using in an insurgency campaign.
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Given one of the primary fears of the Founding Fathers with regards to a standing army is a tendency toward foreign adventurism, I'd say that at least some of their fears have been fairly well founded. As for its use as a tool of repression on American soil, well, I'd point out the Kent State shooting for one example. The Army National Guard has repeated been called out to help repress civil rights protests since the movement began.
 
luchog said:
Given one of the primary fears of the Founding Fathers with regards to a standing army is a tendency toward foreign adventurism, I'd say that at least some of their fears have been fairly well founded. As for its use as a tool of repression on American soil, well, I'd point out the Kent State shooting for one example. The Army National Guard has repeated been called out to help repress civil rights protests since the movement began.
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And the federal troops have often been used against those national guards.
 
Congress Focuses on Leftover Gun Bill After Florida Shooting

Passing the Fix NICS Act shouldn’t be hard. No gun or gun accessory is being banned. No one who is allowed to purchase a gun under current law would be blocked from purchasing a gun. The law simply tries to ensure that reportable information should be reported into a database. It should have passed as a standalone bill by voice vote in both chambers on a single afternoon several months ago. But in Congress, when a piece of modest and near-universally accepted legislation on a hot topic is put forward, it’s never just passed. It becomes a bargaining chip.
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This one even has the support of the NRA - but even that is not enough. They have to add a bunch of crap to further reduce regulations on conceal carry permits. They'll probably want to add a bunch of crap to arm teachers, to force states, counties and cities to allow armed teachers. They'll add as much crap as they can to allow ever more guns, everywhere so they can make the Dems look bad.

This is a good bill. It will never pass.
 
crescent said:
Congress Focuses on Leftover Gun Bill After Florida Shooting



This one even has the support of the NRA - but even that is not enough. They have to add a bunch of crap to further reduce regulations on conceal carry permits. They'll probably want to add a bunch of crap to arm teachers, to force states, counties and cities to allow armed teachers. They'll add as much crap as they can to allow ever more guns, everywhere so they can make the Dems look bad.

This is a good bill. It will never pass.
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I remember hearing about this and saying it seemed like a good idea at the time. John Cornyn's thing wasn't it? I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they'd find a way to screw up even something that simple.
 
luchog said:
Given one of the primary fears of the Founding Fathers with regards to a standing army is a tendency toward foreign adventurism, I'd say that at least some of their fears have been fairly well founded. As for its use as a tool of repression on American soil, well, I'd point out the Kent State shooting for one example. The Army National Guard has repeated been called out to help repress civil rights protests since the movement began.
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Sorry, I'm probably close to being as liberal as you, but this is wrong. The National Guard is as close to being the militia envisioned by the second amendment as you can get these days. The regular army would have shown more professionalism.
 
Who said this and when? Trump 2018 or Obama 2013?
In one week I will holding a number of discussions with students, local leaders and law enforcement to develop concrete steps we can take to secure our schools, safeguard our students and protect our communities. School safety is a top priority of my administration....This includes implementing common sense security measures and addressing mental health issues.
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In other news Trump is proposing a rather meaningless gesture;

He signed a memorandum directing the Attorney General to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns. I think Trump is getting more bad advice. Issues about the AR-15 have been keeping the ATF busy for a long time. Here is one link; https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-appendix-b/download

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/politics/donald-trump-bump-stocks/index.html

Ranb
 
ponderingturtle said:
As well as the point that their fears of a standing army has been at the least unwarranted in the case of the US, and the weapons being used are not exactly those that we would be using in an insurgency campaign.
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This just made me think that there must be enough people with guns in this country to take over many nations of the world if people just decided to hop on planes and go for it.
 
mgidm86 said:
This just made me think that there must be enough people with guns in this country to take over many nations of the world if people just decided to hop on planes and go for it.
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That is pretty much how we conquered Hawaii.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Then why did the FF put it in there, right at the front? To use up more ink and vellum?
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It's what is known as a "prefatory clause"' a preface to the actual text of the amendment; which is a "justification clause", a short explanation of the need for the existence of the amendment.
 
sadhatter said:
Are you saying the people who drafted it had no idea that firearms would improve?

I feel it is a pretty solid statement to say the people who wrote it were at least of average intellect and as such would understand that just like everything else guns would continue to improve. And as such, the 2nd amendment was written with the concept of modern firearms in mind.
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I think that it's more likely that the people that wrote the constitution expected the amendments to get amended as circumstances changed.

I find it exceedingly hard to believe that the drafters had any concept of an AK-47 back when it was written for example. It's notoriously hard to predict the future.

Lets fast forward 500 years. Will the 2nd amendment still be a part of the US constitution? (Will there still be a USA?) If there is, what kind of advanced high tech weaponry will there be, and how much more stupid would a person 500 years from now sound trotting out the argument that the drafters of the 2nd amendment ought to have forseen "todays" weapons when writing it?
 
mgidm86 said:
This just made me think that there must be enough people with guns in this country to take over many nations of the world if people just decided to hop on planes and go for it.
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I guess so, if they were well regulated enough to get on planes to the same place at the same time.
 
lobosrul5 said:
I can't find anywhere that suggests the 82nd Airborne actually fought the Alabama National Guard. In fact Kennedy also federalized their National Guard with Executive Order 11111.
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Don’t know about the situation with Kennedy but in the case of the Little Rock Nine the Governor of Arkansas did use the local National Guard to block the school integration and Eisenhower sent in the 101st airborne to take over. I don’t think there was any actual fighting between the guard and the 101st but at some point he did put the local guard units under the command of the 101st, taking it out of the hands of the governor.
 
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