Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

[HSienzant]

I explained everything in June of last year:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11876801&postcount=401

I simply can't believe that I've missed this all these years!

After examining the various photos and drawings and a review of my own extensive archives, I've come to the conclusion that not only is The Great American Lee Harvey Oswald innocent, The "red spot" on JFK's head wasn't a impact wound and JFK was not killed by gunfire.

It is the burn mark left by an early, highly classified laser aiming device later adopted as the PEQ15A, based on technology adapted from UFO's stored at Area 51. (confirmed by John Lear)

The early versions had the undesirable side effect of cooking the target from the inside-out before the target could be shot. That side effect is much like the cousin of the PEQ unit, the microwave oven. (Confirmed by Irwin Corey)

In the conspiracy to frame poor Lee, he was encouraged to bring his rifle to work so he could fire celebratory gunfire out the window at the TSBD to celebrate JFK's arrival in Dallas. (Confirmed by Oliver Stone)

At the moment that Lee fired his Carcano out the window on the sixth floor, not even aiming at anyone, he got excited and was too carried away to notice that people didn't understand he was happy firing, not mad firing. (confirmed by many witnesses)

While that was happening, Richard Nixon, Bebe Rebozo, Lyndon Johnson and Sonny Liston were on the roof of the Dal-Tex building with the PEQ. The early unit was extremely heavy, and it had to be held by Sonny. Nixon and Rebozo worked the hand-crank for power and the unit was aimed and fired by Johnson. (Confirmed by Sonny Liston in his autobiography, I ain't got no dog-proof ass.)

When JFK felt the first burn of the highpowered laser he thought his tie was too tight and went to loosen it, but at that moment Sonny got a good look at Jackie and got distracted and moved a bit, causing Johnson to lose his sight picture and the laser hit JFK square in the head. It only took a fraction of a second for his head to pop like a ripe melon. The explosion was so vicious that one of the filings in his tooth popped out and went right through Connally. (Confirmed by autopsy expert, Dr. Bombay)

When poor Lee saw that, he thought he might be in trouble, so he hid his rifle and decided to go home. (Confirmed by lunchroom lady)

Meanwhile, for the four men on the Dal-Tex roof, it was mission accomplished. Nixon ended that JFK Punk, Rebozo had blackmail material on Nixon and Johnson. Johnson was going to be the President, and now that Jackie was single...Sonny asked Johnson if he could take a few years off from paying his federal taxes. Johnson called him the N word and told him to carry the PEQ. Sonny kicked Rebozo in the nuts. (Liston, I ain't got no dog proof ass)

Lee was confused. All he ever wanted was to make happy noise in honor of his President, but all these people were screaming, crying, sirens. He thought there must really be something wrong, and he decided to go back to his place and get his Smith & Wesson revolver...just in case. (Lunchroom lady, psychic communication 1)

After he retrieved his handgun, he was walking down the street when somebody who was probably pretending to be a cop tried to stop him. Lee was an American who knew his rights, so when the maybe fake cop told him to stop, he kept going. Then when the cop yelled at him he stopped, but he could tell the maybe fake cop was nervous, and real cops shouldn't be nervous, so he shot him. (Lunchroom lady, psychic communication 2)

Oswald went to see a movie, where nearby some of the conspirators shot Tippit with an automatic and then policed up all the real brass and dropped shells traceable to Oswald's gun in an attempt to frame him.

Fixed that for you.

Lee thought it might be a good time to take in a movie. Being a big Audie Murphy fan, he noticed that War is Hell was playing and slipped in to watch. (Lunchroom lady, psychic communication 3)

The next thing he knew, and he was only watching a movie, what could be wrong with watching a movie? a bunch of cops showed up and came after him! He tried to show them that he was carrying a gun like one of the good guys, but they didn't seem to like that. (Lunchroom lady, psychic communication 4)

And don't forget Officer MacDonald knocked Oswald down and also threw his face right into Oswald's fist, bruising Oswald's hand. That's assault. When one of the conspirators tried to shove the revolver used to shoot Tippit into Oswald's pants^*, Oswald tried to stop him and pulled it out, and then the cops roughed him up while he kept yelling "I am not resisting arrest!"

FTFY too.

After that he got roughed up, locked up, nobody seemed to like him, and just like that a little fat guy shot him for no reason! How's that fair?

XXXXXXXXXXXX

OK, that's it. Forget all the other speculation. That's the true tale and since none of you can prove me wrong that's what really happened.

And you left out he got warm walking to the theatre, so he decided to throw away a perfectly good jacket under a car in the parking lot that just happened to be the same parking lot the Tippit killer fled through^*. But that's just a coincidence and we shouldn't make any inference about Oswald's guilt from that.

Hank
___________

* I actually had CTs argue for both these in the past.

 

[HSienzant]

Don't forget Robert Murrow.

Morrow. Let's assign blame where blame is due.

Hank

 

[smartcooky]

So you've got, as evidence of the other shooter(s) with silenced weapons, all this:
(a) Unheard weapons
(b) Unseen assassins
(c) Unseen weapons
(d) Unseen shells
(e) No bullets traceable to another weapon other than Oswald's
(f) No fragments traceable to another weapon other than Oswald's
(g) No damage to either victim that could be traced to another weapon other than Oswald's
(h) No damage to the limousine or anything else in Dealey Plaza that could be traced to another weapon other than Oswald's

Hank, you forgot...

(i) No answers to any of the above (a) to (h)

 

[BStrong]

Morrow. Let's assign blame where blame is due.

Hank

Mea Culpa! Thanks for catching that one. I'd hate to have named the wrong CT monger.

ETA - Thanks for the review on my old post - you nailed my ommissions.

 

[HSienzant]

Mea Culpa! Thanks for catching that one. I'd hate to have named the wrong CT monger.

ETA - Thanks for the review on my old post - you nailed my ommissions.

Believe it or not, he was actually an elected politician in Texas.
Here's his Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Morrow_(Texas_politician)

"Morrow claims that Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson of Texas, with the help of the CIA, was involved in the 1963 assassination of John F. Kennedy.[3] Morrow owns four hundred books on the assassination and considers himself an expert on the topic.[5] He says the three-pointed jester's hat he wears represents three covered-up murders by U.S. politicians.[12]"

Hank

 

[BStrong]

Believe it or not, he was actually an elected politician in Texas.
Here's his Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Morrow_(Texas_politician)

"Morrow claims that Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson of Texas, with the help of the CIA, was involved in the 1963 assassination of John F. Kennedy.[3] Morrow owns four hundred books on the assassination and considers himself an expert on the topic.[5] He says the three-pointed jester's hat he wears represents three covered-up murders by U.S. politicians.[12]"

Hank

I'd wager it's really there to cover the tinfoil.

 

[Axxman300]

"Silencers go all the way back to the turn of the twentieth century, and a firearms expert for the Los Angeles Police Department told me that as of 1963 they were already sophisticated enough to "substantially diminish the report" of the weapon and to "alter or disguise the sound," such as to make it sound like "the hitting of a pile of wood with a hammer" or "the operation of machinery." He said silencers are effective, and shots at Kennedy from a weapon with the best silencer then available "probably wouldn't have even been heard above the background noise of the motorcade and crowd" in Dealey Plaza. 54"

-Vincent Bugliosi, Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy

And yet Uncle Vince comes to a much different conclusion doesn't he?

He's a nice guy, but since he had to ask about silencers tells me he wasn't much of a gun nut. He never served in the military(but was lethal on the tennis court).

The link I posted (and you obviously never read) is written by a guy with two tours, and has used suppressors IN COMBAT. Guess what? it's not like the enemy can't find you if you're using a suppressor.

This is the third post where you cited a source that PROVED Oswald acted alone. You really should read it from beginning to end.

 

[Axxman300]

Hank, in the real world, shooters hide their guns and pick up their shells.

Are you talking about shooters or assassins?

In my neck of the woods the local street gang shoots 2 or 3 people per month. Their MO is to roll up alongside and empty their gun into their target(s). Sometimes, if it's a big deal, one of them walks straight up and shoots the guy at point blank range.

These guys have more real-world experience killing than the average soldier, or CIA paramilitary officer.

They don't stop to police their brass. The good ones use revolvers so they can dispose of the empty shells elsewhere.

Yet if you're talking about a trained assassin you have a few problems. The first one being that you presented the CIA's Assassination book, which says GUNS ARE A NO-GO. Had you bothered to read the who thing you would have found they were big on organic killing, meaning killing the target with whatever was in the room, or poisons.

And this is where you've shot yourself in the foot: Nothing about Dealey Plaza suggests a professional assassin, and we can thank you for dragging that CIA book into the conversation because it comes from the horse's mouth.

Oswald was a shooter who landed 2/3 rounds into JKF, but not a trained assassin.

 

[abaddon]

It is amusing that despite having the entire notion of the Hollywood version of silencers having been battered to death on this very thread, MJ resurrects that very failed notion as though none of those posts ever happened.

Of course, MJ now uses the term suppressor, having learned right here that it is the more correct term, but also forgetting that the very term obviates the notion of the Hollywood silencer.

It is the very essence of a fringe reset.

 

[MicahJava]

If you know anything about ballistics and this case, you will know that Oswald used 6.5 x 52 ammunition. The bullet head of this cartridge is 31mm long. A tumbling bullet travelling at low velocity (this is very important later, so remember it) can leave an entry hole anywhere between 6.5mm round, and 31mm elongated. The elongation of the hole depends entirely on the angle of attack of the bullet. If it has fully tumbled 180° or as far as 360°, it will leave a round hole, if it has tumbled about 90° or 270° it will leave a hole about 31mm wide. If the bullet has tumbles about 30°, 150°, 210° or 330° it will leave an elongated hole approx 15mm long. Connally's surgeon Dr. Robert Shaw measured the long axis of the original elliptical entrance wound at 1.5 cm (15mm)

However, when a bullet enters at high velocity, the dynamics are vastly different. The kinetic energy of the bullet is much, much higher (some estimates say that the single bullet that hit JFK in the back slowed down by as much as 60% before striking JC. However the bullet that struck JFKs head was at high velocity... supersonic in fact.

What you don't realize is that that full metal-jacketed bullets travelling at high velocity can produce a hole in skull bone that's slightly smaller than the bullet that produced them, while at the same time creating much larger temporary cavity or splash effect, which collapses back. Further, while the initial entry hole might be circular, the varying density and viscosity of the surrounding tissue may cause it to not collapse back evenly all around the entry point. I have observed this myself when hunting.... I hit the animal square on/side on, but the entry wound is oval.

The difference here is that with the low velocity of the bullet striking JC, the oval shape can only be caused by a tumbling bullet, while with the high velocity bullet, the oval shape can be caused ballistically by the reaction of the surrounding tissue.

Ooor he was struck at an angle that wasn't perfectly straight.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Ooor he was struck at an angle that wasn't perfectly straight.

Can you explain what you mean by that?

 

[Whip]

And this is where you've shot yourself in the foot

he couldn't have.......there had to be second shooter.

 

[HSienzant]

Can you explain what you mean by that?

He's suggesting a hit at an angle to the Governor to remove the yawing or tumbling factor from a prior bullet hit to the President that emerged from the President's neck to strike the Governor.

He is suggesting a separate shot to the Governor, one that didn't strike the President first.

He is arguing against the single bullet theory now, as a means to argue for a fourth shot that way.

He doesn't care about the means of getting to a fourth shot, he just wants a fourth shot by any means necessary.

He's apparently abandoning (for the moment) his argument for a fourth shot to the head that exited the throat because he can't adequately support it.

Once sufficient time passes, he'll return to arguing for a shot at the EOP that exited the throat all over again, as if all his arguments haven't been beaten to death already in this threat and the prior ones.

Hank

 

[MicahJava]

He's suggesting a hit at an angle to the Governor to remove the yawing or tumbling factor from a prior bullet hit to the President that emerged from the President's neck to strike the Governor.

He is suggesting a separate shot to the Governor, one that didn't strike the President first.

He is arguing against the single bullet theory now, as a means to argue for a fourth shot that way.

He doesn't care about the means of getting to a fourth shot, he just wants a fourth shot by any means necessary.

He's apparently abandoning (for the moment) his argument for a fourth shot to the head that exited the throat because he can't adequately support it.

Once sufficient time passes, he'll return to arguing for a shot at the EOP that exited the throat all over again, as if all his arguments haven't been beaten to death already in this threat and the prior ones.

Hank

Yeah, because bullets entering tissue at a tangent never create oval wounds. What was I thinking?

*Routine reminder that the small wound near Kennedy's external occipital protuberance was no more oval than Connally's back wound.

 

[RoboTimbo]

He's suggesting a hit at an angle to the Governor to remove the yawing or tumbling factor from a prior bullet hit to the President that emerged from the President's neck to strike the Governor.

He is suggesting a separate shot to the Governor, one that didn't strike the President first.

He is arguing against the single bullet theory now, as a means to argue for a fourth shot that way.

He doesn't care about the means of getting to a fourth shot, he just wants a fourth shot by any means necessary.

He's apparently abandoning (for the moment) his argument for a fourth shot to the head that exited the throat because he can't adequately support it.

Once sufficient time passes, he'll return to arguing for a shot at the EOP that exited the throat all over again, as if all his arguments haven't been beaten to death already in this threat and the prior ones.

Hank

MicahJava, is that what you mean? If so, can you explain the path the bullet took through Connolly if he was struck at an angle?

 

[RoboTimbo]

Yeah, because bullets entering tissue at a tangent never creates an oval wound. What was I thinking?

*Routine reminder that the small wound near Kennedy's external occipital protuberance was no more oval than Connally's back wound.

We cross posted. Good, explain how the bullet struck Connolly at such an angle to create an oval wound but deflected to appear as though it came from Kennedy's direction.

 

[smartcooky]

Ooor he was struck at an angle that wasn't perfectly straight.

For that to happen, the bullet would need to have struck something else to start it tumbling before it hit JFK in the back of the head. Also, it almost certainly would need to be subsonic, having been slowed down by what it hit. The you have the additional factor that a tumbling, subsonic, full metal jacket bullet does not have sufficient kinetic energy to fragment and blow the targets brains out.

See what happens when you try to make up stuff? You add extra layers of complication, which you then have to account for by adding extra made up stuff. When you stick to the truth, i.e., what actually happened, you don't have to make up stuff.

Now you should go away and learn something about ballistics before coming back and making a fool of yourself... again.

Can you explain what you mean by that?

This comment certainly made me wonder. I thought his aim originally was to argue that because the JFK kill-shot entry hole was similar to the entry hole in JC's back that the bullet that hit JC didn't tumble. Now he appears to have switched to accepting that it did, and is arguing that the JFK kill-shot bullet tumbled too? Huh?

 

[MicahJava]

For that to happen, the bullet would need to have struck something else to start it tumbling before it hit JFK in the back of the head. Also, it almost certainly would need to be subsonic, having been slowed down by what it hit. The you have the additional factor that a tumbling, subsonic, full metal jacket bullet does not have sufficient kinetic energy to fragment and blow the targets brains out.

See what happens when you try to make up stuff? You add extra layers of complication, which you then have to account for by adding extra made up stuff. When you stick to the truth, i.e., what actually happened, you don't have to make up stuff.

Now you should go away and learn something about ballistics before coming back and making a fool of yourself... again.



This comment certainly made me wonder. I thought his aim originally was to argue that because the JFK kill-shot entry hole was similar to the entry hole in JC's back that the bullet that hit JC didn't tumble. Now he appears to have switched to accepting that it did, and is arguing that the JFK kill-shot bullet tumbled too? Huh?

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/s/9iv8tdnndord98o/shatnerWTF.gif?raw=1[/qimg]

No, missiles can create oval wounds if they enter the tissue at an angle.

 

[RoboTimbo]

No, missiles can create oval wounds if they enter the tissue at an angle.

And?

 

[smartcooky]

No, missiles can create oval wounds if they enter the tissue at an angle.

Very, very rarely and only if the angle is steep. However, when that happens, they exhibit something called an "abrasion collar", which is oval in shape, larger than the entry wound and is extended in the direction from which the bullet has come. The abrasion collar is caused by the bullet rubbing against the skin as the skin is "dragging in" with the bullet, and then released.

JFK's kill shot entry wound does not show an extended abrasion collar, ergo, the incident angle was not steep

I repeat my earlier advice... go away and learn something about ballistics so that you can debate from a position of at least knowing something about what you are talking about.