Larry Nassar gets 175 years.....

Belz... said:
I don't think you are representing this issue properly. You don't get the first one free if you get a somewhat lesser sentence.
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Nonetheless, his overall point is correct.

When a person commits a violent crime, is caught and charged, we put them in prison in the first instance to punish them for their crime, and to protect the public. Rehabilitation is only a consideration after the first two requirements are satisfied. If this were not so, then we could simply dispense with incarceration altogether, and rehabilitate the offender outside the prison system.

Is that what you would like to see happening for murderers and rapists?
 
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Bob001 said:
Are Swedes looking forward to having Anders Behring Breivik back on the streets?
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Breivik is not Swedish, he's Norwegian, and his terror attacks both took place in Norway. However, you make a good point. I wonder if Norwegians will be happy to have him roaming the streets from 2032 onwards; its only 15 years away, and Breivik will only be 53 year old... young enough to carry out another terror attack.
 
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Thermal said:
Some interesting points from Nassar's letter, quoted by CNN:



Nassar is not only denying actual guilt...he is accusing the media, attorney general, and his sentencing judge of corruption. This just boggles the mind.

https://www.local10.com/news/national/read-judge-aquilinas-statement-to-larry-nassar
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I'm curious. Is there even one peer reviewed article that suggests that pain can be relieved by fingers being put in a girl's or woman's vagina? It's not something I had ever heard of before this case came up, and the fact that he also had child pornography in his possession certainly supports the notion that pain relief was not his only motivation, if it figured into his motivation at all.

I really don't by his claims, and even if there was any therapeutic value to what he was doing, the way he was doing it was very wrong, but I am curious as to whether there is any trace of medical justification, such that he may have somehow convinced himself that he was doing therapy rather than just molesting girls under the cover of medical treatment.
 
smartcooky said:
Nonetheless, his overall point is correct.

When a person commits a violent crime, is caught and charged, we put them in prison in the first instance to punish them for their crime, and to protect the public. Rehabilitation is only a consideration after the first two requirements are satisfied. If this were not so, then we could simply dispense with incarceration altogether, and rehabilitate the offender outside the prison system.

Is that what you would like to see happening for murderers and rapists?
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The highlighted isn't true.
 
There's also another angle to this, the idea that longer sentences don't reduce crime.

It's simple. When people in in prison they aren't committing crimes. (Things like in-prison crimes and the rare things like check fraud that are occasionally committing from within prison not withstanding).

So... crimes rates sort of have to go down with longer sentences unless you want to argue there's some sort of... conservation of crime in the overall society, some factor that causes the criminals in prison to be replaced in overall society by new criminals and what would that factor even be?

I'm not being flippant here. I know studies as to how longer sentences affect crime rates do tend to no show direct correlations but I'm honestly confused as to the "how" more so than the "why."

There's plenty of valid reasons to oppose longer sentences but I do see how on a logical, almost purely mathematical level longer sentence can't reduce crime rates. "Crime" isn't an industry that recruits new people to met employment numbers.
 
smartcooky said:
Breivik is not Swedish, he's Norwegian, and his terror attacks both took place in Norway. However, you make a good point. I wonder if Norwegians will be happy to have him roaming the streets from 2032 onwards; its only 15 years away, and Breivik will only be 53 year old... young enough to carry out another terror attack.
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He was sentenced to a criminal sanction called detainment, which in practice means that his release can be perpetually postponed every 5 years if he's deemed too big a threat.

It's highly likely that he won't be released until he's too old and frail to commit any act of terrorism.
 
Arcade22 said:
He was sentenced to a criminal sanction called detainment, which in practice means that his release can be perpetually postponed every 5 years if he's deemed too big a threat.
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Oh so you can have long sentences as long as you call it something else.

That's totally different. You see in the backwater, barely civilized US we "imprison" people for years but in the post-scarcity Singularity utopia of Sweden they "detain" people for years.
 
Michigan Attorney General is launching an official probe into the MSU cover up,has supeoned all MSU records pertaining to the case, and the investigation will probably extend to the the USG and USOC involvement as well.
The **** has only begun to hit the fan over the cover up, folks.

Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to remove rule 10 breach. Please remember to type the word out in full
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Oh so you can have long sentences as long as you call it something else.

That's totally different. You see in the backwater, barely civilized US we "imprison" people for years but in the post-scarcity Singularity utopia of Sweden they "detain" people for years.
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A socialist society does not imprison people, just detains them...interesting.
 
smartcooky said:
Come back to me when you have some figures for reoffending rapists, serial rapists, armed robbers and burglars.

I'll even help by getting you started with the rape figures

In the UK in 2012 there were 1,200 rape convictions in, of which the offender had previous convictions for rape in 43 cases and other sexual offences in 136 instances, according to figures released by the Ministry of Justice.
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Mis-quote corrected.

Elsewhere, the figures, first published in The Sun newspaper, showed that nearly half of rapists (48%) in 2012 were released from jail after serving half or less of their sentence, up from 43% in 2011.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/418271/Rape-figures-show-reoffending-rate

Perhaps you would like to explain to those 179 people that its OK that they were raped/sexually assaulted because there is a greater good here of rehabilitating prisoners. Let me know how you get on.

179 is not a trivial number of people, its 179 people who were sexually assaulted or raped, that would not have been had the offender been kept inside.
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Perhaps you would like to think about the implications of your demands rationally for once?

What those figures show is that 4% of rapes we're perpetrated by previously-convicted rapists, 11% were perpetrated by people who had been convicted of any other sexual offence, and therefore 85% were down to perpetrators who had no previous convictions for either rape or any other sexual offence. Those, however, are not reoffending rates, which we can't measure directly, because denominators for either past rapists or other sexual offenders are conspicuously absent.

We can probably say, though, that at least 96% of previously-convicted rapists do not subsequently get convicted of the same offence again, while an even greater percentage of other previously-convicted sexual offenders to not progress to a rape conviction.

Effectively you are saying that >96% of convicted rapists and sexual offenders need to be kept in prison, simply because the other <4% of their number may re-offend. This probably equates to permanently incarcerating hundreds of thousands just to prevent less than 200 new offence per year.
 
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theprestige said:
It's going to be a weird Olympic season, with Russia banned, North and South Korea sending a unified team, and the US gymnastics organization imploding.
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The gymnastics isn't relevant, they don't do much of that in the winter olympics.

Now if it was in the figure skating then that would mean something.
 
smartcooky said:
Breivik is not Swedish, he's Norwegian, and his terror attacks both took place in Norway. However, you make a good point. I wonder if Norwegians will be happy to have him roaming the streets from 2032 onwards; its only 15 years away, and Breivik will only be 53 year old... young enough to carry out another terror attack.
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Sorry. My mistake. But it sounds like Norway and Sweden have similar penal philosophies.
 
theprestige said:
It's going to be a weird Olympic season, with Russia banned, North and South Korea sending a unified team, and the US gymnastics organization imploding.
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We have only the Winter Olympics this year but the US GYmanstics organization imploding will have an impact on the next Summer games.
And it might not stop there;the USOC might well get a severe shaking up since they seem to implicit in the cover up as well with their action against the US Gymnastics seeming to have a good deal of CYA in it.
 
I know I get wrapped up in minutiae sometimes, but I still marvel that the subject matter of a thread about a guy who took advantage of hundreds of girls and young women, and used his reputation to cover it up, turns to the question of how his sentence is calculated, and whether or not he will be raped in prison.


Oh, well. Different people are interested in different things I suppose. For my part, I'm more interested in what this says about how we trust doctors, "experts", and authority figures, what price we are willing to pay for fame and success, and what impact this might have on some very prominent programs.
 
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