13 victims, ages 2 to 29, kept shackled by parents

[William Parcher]

I'm not feeling good about the adults being moved into an adult assisted living facility because those places frequently contain crazy people. I feel that they should be placed somewhere where there aren't any crazies. Maybe it would be even better if they were with family and had counselors visiting.

 

[William Parcher]

Oh, and the mother's sister said that both of them were sexually molested by a close family member when they were kids. The story suggests that it wasn't the parents.

 

[SusanB-M1]

Oh, and the mother's sister said that both of them were sexually molested by a close family member when they were kids. The story suggests that it wasn't the parents.

I'd just like to say thank you for your continuing updates. It is a desperately sad story, but following it here rather than trying to find internet news reports is the most convenient way to read it.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Thirteen kids is a lot. Way more than any two people can handle all by themselves. The couples who do it successfully do it in part by incorporating themselves into their community. They get help from family, Church, government, neighbors, school district and whomever.

It is all down hill after a certain point, you just assign the older kids to be in charge of the younger ones and there you go.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

The same kind of people who have more than 30 cats, with 8 or 9 dead ones in the basement freezer waiting burial that won't happen until the city interferes.

You know, you think you can handle things but the stress keeps piling up. You're barely maintaining. Then an event happens, maybe a health issue or a financial set back and the next think you know the cat you thought was just fat has a litter and you can't do anything about it because the litter is in the attic and you have to be a cat to get up there, and the kid with mental issues won't shut-up and you end up tying them down just temporarily because right now Mommy needs some bourbon and Quiet and you had better provide the quiet in you know what's good for you! And if that means you poop your pants then poop your pants, gawdammit!! We’ll deal with it when Mommy can deal with it and that might not be until tomorrow!

A few days later you find yourself doing it again, only you’re screaming at another kid saying ”if you don’t like what I’m doing to Emily then you can either keep her quiet yourself or you can join her ‘cause I’ve got plenty of rope for everyone and if I have to tie up everyone to get just a few minutes of QUIET then everybody WILL GET TIED UP DO I MAKE MYSELF UNDERSTOOD?!!!!”

Months later the bondage routine has become routine, the kittens have been dealt with by catching them one at a time and clubbing them with a shovel, their tiny bodies disposed of one or two at a time. Order has been restored to a level Mom and Dad can cope with, even though they know secretly they’ve gone too far, which is why nobody can have friends anymore. Nobody but family is allowed into the house because all hell will break loose if outsiders see what is going on.

They don’t see themselves as bad people, just people forced to do things you and I won’t understand because we weren’t there facing the pressure they were facing.

This is an admirable exercise in empathy and understanding, without condoning or excusing. Thank you for adding an important viewpoint. However the condition of the older 'children' suggests that the tipping point was presumably early, while it was a significantly smaller family.

 

[ddt]

There are no charges related to the 2 year old girl. Reports say she is healthy and unharmed. The house is described as filthy and stinky. Apparently there are no charges based on that for this little girl.

If the parents have been fully consistent with their treatment of their children then they don't abuse or malnourish their children at least up until age 2. We don't know when it starts or if this girl gets better treatment than any other had gotten, or what.

I read somewhere that the mother also recently expressed the wish to have another child. That may also tie in with the theory that she lost interest in their children after a low age of 2 or thereabouts.

And when I say "the mother wanted to have another baby", there's another question. Do we really know that all kids are the mother's, except for the parents' say-so? Have they already been DNA tested? Have the kids been asked about this? The ages of the children strike me as very odd. The youngest is 2, and the other twelve range in age from 12 to 29. And the mother herself is already 49, not exactly a common age to conceive children.

 

[William Parcher]

There are no charges related to the 2 year old girl. Reports say she is healthy and unharmed. The house is described as filthy and stinky. Apparently there are no charges based on that for this little girl.

Now I'm not sure that this is correct. It has been reported that the 2 year old girl is of appropriate weight. But I looked again at the charges...

12 counts of torture.
1 count against David Turpin of a lewd act on a child.
7 counts of abuse against a dependent adult.
6 counts of child abuse/neglect.
12 counts of false imprisonment.

There are 13 offspring with 7 being adults and 6 being children including the 2 year old. Therefore the 6 counts of child abuse/neglect must include the 2 year old. She's not included in the torture or false imprisonment charges.

So, I then I would amend my post about the treatment of the 2 yo to be something like: Fed properly but abused and neglected.

 

[William Parcher]

Originally the news articles said that all the children were chained giving the impression that that is what the police found upon arrival. Then later the articles said that the police found 3 chained. Most recently that is clarified to say that they found 1 chained and believe that 2 others were chained but released before they could see them. Details of that event with who released them/how/when are not mentioned. I guess that they could have been released by the mother, or sibling or themselves. Or maybe they weren't really chained at that time.

 

[3point14]

This bickering is needless.

It seems to be providing the Daily Mail a few hits, so it's upping the level of evil in the world just a tiny little bit.

 

[William Parcher]

I read somewhere that the mother also recently expressed the wish to have another child. That may also tie in with the theory that she lost interest in their children after a low age of 2 or thereabouts.

Yeah, she told her brother that she wanted another kid. Also told him that they wanted to be in a reality TV show featuring their big family.

The family’s reality TV aspirations were revealed this week by Louise Turpin’s brother, Billy Lambert, who gave interviews to Inside Edition and The Mirror, a United Kingdom tabloid. In those interviews, Lambert said his sister was obsessed with “Kate Plus 8,” a reality show about a couple with eight children, and dreamed of having a similar show about her family...

https://www.desertsun.com/story/new...louise-turpin-dreamed-reality-show/1055944001

And when I say "the mother wanted to have another baby", there's another question. Do we really know that all kids are the mother's, except for the parents' say-so? Have they already been DNA tested? Have the kids been asked about this?

Various tabloids are saying that the children are being DNA and paternity tested. Investigators are not commenting when asked about that. No clue if the kids have been asked.

Oh, and some tabloids are also saying that investigators are taking cadaver dogs through the various homes and properties seeking to find any possible human bodies.

 

[William Parcher]

A source close to the investigation told CBS News' David Begnaud last week that the siblings specifically asked social workers if they could stay together after being freed.

The State of California should be arrested for child and victim abuse. They wanted to stay together, but no. First the parents abuse them and now the State does it.

"We want to stay together because we are a family and we love each other and we went through so many bad things. And we want to be with our puppy dogs too. But you guys won't grant those wishes and we are wondering when anything we would like will be provided to us by anyone. We don't want to start thinking that we were better off back at home because we had each other and our puppies and now we are crying again. What kind of a rescue is this?"

Damn the State policies all the way to hell! Isn't there anyone in that government with an ounce of brains or real and practical compassion?

 

[Butter!]

It's really a shame that their relatives aren't able to help.

Now this part is just going to be me getting up on my judgey-horse. So pardon me a moment. But I have to say, if something like this were discovered about members of my family, and I found myself unable to directly help by taking anyone in, I'd definitely also go mum on talk show appearances and the like. I'd talk to police, but I'd tell the media to **** right off. I guess it's just a personal thing, but there's something very intrinsically distasteful about going on TV and banging on about how shocked and appalled you are when the kids are all being split up and going to homes, traumatized and bewildered. I totally understand that most people aren't in a spacial, financial, or emotional position to take on something like this. But they're also not required to participate in the media circus.

I don't know why, it rubs me the wrong way. It's quite possible I'm just a dick, though.

 

[William Parcher]

It's really a shame that their relatives aren't able to help.

They are announcing offerings of whatever help they can give. However, the State can stand in the way. It is a sudden dilemma when there are 13 kids.

The world is asking how could people around them let this happen?

I think that the relatives are cooperating with TV and reporters partly to try to answer that as a way of protecting themselves. One of the mother's sisters actually once lived with the family. She says that she saw no abuse or food deprivation or any of the things reported. She did see skinny kids but hey the father is skinny and they take after him. She makes no mention of seeing chains or strangulation or beating or sleeping all day or no showering or anything. She said the father was strict but that's it. Oh, and he would sometimes watch her in the shower and laugh.

Other family members are the same. Nothing seemed to warrant personal intervention or calling the police. Maybe they did see horror and are lying now to cover their own asses.

I think it's likely that all of these people will be subpoenaed as witnesses. There could be benefit for the prosecution and/or the defense. What's important though is that facts are established to be used as evidence to arrive at verdicts.

 

[ddt]

The State of California should be arrested for child and victim abuse. They wanted to stay together, but no. First the parents abuse them and now the State does it.

"We want to stay together because we are a family and we love each other and we went through so many bad things. And we want to be with our puppy dogs too. But you guys won't grant those wishes and we are wondering when anything we would like will be provided to us by anyone. We don't want to start thinking that we were better off back at home because we had each other and our puppies and now we are crying again. What kind of a rescue is this?"

Damn the State policies all the way to hell! Isn't there anyone in that government with an ounce of brains or real and practical compassion?

Really, Parcher? Where in hell is CPS going to find a foster home that accepts to take SIX children, much less one they think that could handle six children? They should be lucky they're only split up in two groups, and I hope for them they're to each other, but really, they should count their blessings.

 

[luchog]

Thirteen kids is a lot. Way more than any two people can handle all by themselves. The couples who do it successfully do it in part by incorporating themselves into their community. They get help from family, Church, government, neighbors, school district and whomever.

These people isolated themselves. They didn't belong to a church, they held their extended family at arm's length, they hid from their neighbors and they minimized their contact with government.

This situation is not, unfortunately, all that uncommon with a certain breed of religious fanatic as well; although this situation is a bit more extreme in some respects than most, it's far from unique.

These people don't appear to have been terribly religious, but there are many instances of the extreme end of movements like religious home-schooling and "quiverfull", that result in similar situations. Children are often sequestered from the outside world to "protect" them from evil influences; and are habitually abused physically and emotionally, as those groups are also big on "instant obedience" and more severe forms of corporal punishment. Children are also taught to fear police and other government officials as "agents of the devil" who will kill or enslave them.

In the mainstream, we like to look at cases like these as isolated anomalies, rare phenomena that are the product of some sort of mental illness, but they're far more common than most people realize. Common enough that many of these movements have entire churches and organizations that they belong time, which have their own lawyers to help stymie government efforts to investigate and remedy cases of abuse.

 

[Butter!]

They are announcing offerings of whatever help they can give. However, the State can stand in the way. It is a sudden dilemma when there are 13 kids.

The world is asking how could people around them let this happen?

I think that the relatives are cooperating with TV and reporters partly to try to answer that as a way of protecting themselves. One of the mother's sisters actually once lived with the family. She says that she saw no abuse or food deprivation or any of the things reported. She did see skinny kids but hey the father is skinny and they take after him. She makes no mention of seeing chains or strangulation or beating or sleeping all day or no showering or anything. She said the father was strict but that's it. Oh, and he would sometimes watch her in the shower and laugh.

Other family members are the same. Nothing seemed to warrant personal intervention or calling the police. Maybe they did see horror and are lying now to cover their own asses. I think it's likely that all of these people will be subpoenaed as witnesses. There could be benefit for the prosecution and/or the defense. What's important though is that facts are established to be used as evidence to arrive at verdicts.

If I were going to take a page out of your sleuthing book D), I would say I lean toward suspecting the highlighted. Now I'm sure the Turpins weren't in full whips-and-chains mode when the sister was around. But she must have suspected more than she is letting on. If not during her time living with them, then later when she wasn't allowed to see or talk to the kids for years and years. But I also fully understand the compulsion to "stay out" of people's personal affairs. Most people have their own problems and don't want to get heavily involved in probing other people's unless there is absolute, incontrovertible evidence of a problem right in their face. (Sometimes, not even then.)

Have you ever been in a situation where an acquaintance dies and suddenly everyone who ever knew them in the slightest is coming out of the woodwork and waxing rhapsodic about what great friends they were and how devastating this is? There is a sort of reverse of this effect that occurs when an acquaintance (of any degree) is discovered to have done something awful. Everyone seeks to distance themselves.

 

[luchog]

The State of California should be arrested for child and victim abuse. They wanted to stay together, but no. First the parents abuse them and now the State does it.

You seem to have a rather poor understanding of the realities of the foster care system in this country.

The intent is always to keep families together whenever possible, and most states, including CA, will try to place children with relatives rather than foster care, and will try to keep siblings together as much as possible. But that's not always a good idea or possible. Sometimes, the relatives are not seen as sufficiently reliable, and there have been numerous cases where children removed from an abusive home and placed with relatives have ended up right back in the abusive home, within a few days or less.

Further, there are very, very few foster homes that are capable of accepting that many children at one time. Typically, a home will only have room for one, or at most two, children to be placed with them. Trying to find a home for more than that is an uphill battle at best.

On top of that, homes where there has been abuse, particularly sexual abuse, there is concern about perpetuation of the cycle of abuse. Older siblings often take over abusing younger siblings when given the opportunity, either because they were abused themselves, and so are acting out learned behaviour, or because they were explicitly trained to abuse younger siblings by their parents. In many larger families, older children are made responsible for their younger siblings by their parents; and parents who use abusive forms of "discipline" teach their children to do the same. In cases where that is evident or sufficiently suspected, children are separated to prevent further abuses.

 

[William Parcher]

California should build a house or buy a house big enough for all of these kids and their two dogs. Then staff it with caregivers. Then invite family to come visit whenever they want.

Instead of placing them in existing foster homes create one for them. It's uncommon to have to snatch 13 kids all at once. So do a custom job for this batch.

Does it require a GoFundMe aimed at $5 million? There are reports that the neighbors are selling lemonade for the cause. Old fashioned lemonade!

 

[William Parcher]

More details emerge about couple and 13 children allegedly held captive for years

Prosecutors are moving to legally separate David and Louise Turpin from the 13 children they allegedly held captive...

Some 20 people have offered to take guardianship of the Turpin children...

After last week's initial appearance before a judge, David and Louise Turpin are expected back in court Wednesday to face a restraining order...

With the children's expected release from the hospital this week, a source tells CBS News officials want to make sure they do not visit their parents in jail, fearing any conversations could taint the on-going investigation...

Louise Turpin's brother told "Inside Edition" that dressing the siblings alike was done partly to position the family as future reality TV stars...

Another relative, David's brother, Randy Turpin, is the president of a Christian college in Ohio. He wrote a book about the spiritual benefits of fasting. A source close to the investigation told CBS News Randy told authorities in California on Tuesday that he wanted to explore the possibility of adopting the children. But before those discussions can happen, officials want to talk to him about another matter: whether he knew about the past abuse...

Officials insist their top priority for the children, whose names we've learned all start with the letter "J," is their ongoing well-being...

...starting Thursday, the six minor children will be split up to live in two foster homes...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/califo...horrors-to-face-restraining-order-13-children

 

[William Parcher]

Attorney: Trial for parents accused of torturing 13 children may need new venue

An attorney for the father in the case of the 13 tortured children has raised the possibility of moving the parents' trial because press coverage has made it too difficult to find an impartial jury for the torture suspects.

In a court motion filed in advance of a Wednesday court hearing, Deputy Public Defender David Macher said he was concerned that "extraordinary" press coverage of the Turpin case may taint the jury pool in Riverside County, Calif., against the parents.

“The frequent appearance of photographs or video images of the Turpins in the media may taint potential jurors, prejudice them against the Turpins and make it necessary to explore a possible motion for a change of venue,” Macher wrote in a court motion...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/24/turpin-parents-court-hearing/1062005001