The Trump Presidency (Act V - The One Where Everybody Dies)

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Minoosh said:
But they don't need to be incensed. They just need to know the GOP isn't going to lift a finger to stop some 800,000 very stupid, very unfair and wholly avoidable forced repatriations of beautiful children who are vitally important to our national interests.
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To be fair, some of them might be quite unattractive.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
The amount of cognitive dissonance must be strong with this one.

In response to a question about why evangelicals are giving Trump a pass on his adulterous behavior when they came down so heavily on Bill Clinton, Franklin Graham said this:

"I believe Donald Trump is a good man," he said. "He did everything wrong as a candidate and he won, and I don't understand it. Other than I think God put him there."

The rest of the weaseling here: http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/24/politics/graham-evangelicals-support-trump-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html
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Very common view, anecdotally speaking. My family tends towards Pentecostalism and shares that view. Trump is like Saul. He'll be changed by God to be a good man.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
The amount of cognitive dissonance must be strong with this one.

In response to a question about why evangelicals are giving Trump a pass on his adulterous behavior when they came down so heavily on Bill Clinton, Franklin Graham said this:

"I believe Donald Trump is a good man," he said. "He did everything wrong as a candidate and he won, and I don't understand it. Other than I think God put him there."
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I posted this in the "Trump Affair" thread, but it bears repeating here...

The best response to this came from former Republican chair Michael Steele, when talking about evangelical christians...

From: https://www.rawstory.com/2018/01/don...ump-shut-hell/
"I have very simple admonition: just shut the hell up and don’t preach to me about anything ever again. After telling me who to love, what to believe, what to do and what not to do and now you sit back and the prostitutes don’t matter, the grabbing the you-know-what doesn’t matter, the outright behavior and lies don’t matter, just shut up! They have no voice of authority anymore for me"
 
Segnosaur said:
I posted this in the "Trump Affair" thread, but it bears repeating here...

The best response to this came from former Republican chair Michael Steele, when talking about evangelical christians...

From: https://www.rawstory.com/2018/01/don...ump-shut-hell/
"I have very simple admonition: just shut the hell up and don’t preach to me about anything ever again. After telling me who to love, what to believe, what to do and what not to do and now you sit back and the prostitutes don’t matter, the grabbing the you-know-what doesn’t matter, the outright behavior and lies don’t matter, just shut up! They have no voice of authority anymore for me"
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I used to have a negative opinion about Steele, for reasons I honestly can't recall. These days I like him as an example of a principled conservative. His party is changing in ways that are not traditionally conservative. Many politicians are going with the flow, accepting Trump just because he is in power. Steele is not.
 
phiwum said:
I used to have a negative opinion about Steele, for reasons I honestly can't recall.
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According to his Wikipedia page, he is a global warming denier, and he is opposed to abortion. Some of his stances seemed to have changed over time however (such as becoming more accepting of same sex marriage).

These days I like him as an example of a principled conservative. His party is changing in ways that are not traditionally conservative. Many politicians are going with the flow, accepting Trump just because he is in power. Steele is not.
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There are a few of them. Sadly very few. Another one is David Frum (a former speech writer for Bush) who wrote a book called Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic. He also compared the Trump presidency to gum disease.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/...dency-is-like-america-s-gum-disease-1.4498767
 
The Don said:
44% of the electorate voted for President Trump
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I keep meaning to point out that this is not true. 44 percent of 58 percent of the electorate voted for Trump, unless you're defining "the electorate" and "those who voted." That brings it down to 25 percent of the electorate. So all we know is 1 in 4 voters strongly preferred him. If the Dems can't whip up a decent midterm turnout on the strength of all the real damage Trump has done to the U.S. then they're hopeless.
 
Minoosh said:
I keep meaning to point out that this is not true. 44 percent of 58 percent of the electorate voted for Trump, unless you're defining "the electorate" and "those who voted." That brings it down to 25 percent of the electorate. So all we know is 1 in 4 voters strongly preferred him. If the Dems can't whip up a decent midterm turnout on the strength of all the real damage Trump has done to the U.S. then they're hopeless.
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They are hopeless IMO if their main message is just "Not Trump".
 
phiwum said:
Very common view, anecdotally speaking. My family tends towards Pentecostalism and shares that view. Trump is like Saul. He'll be changed by God to be a good man.
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In Trump's case, even God has his limitations.
 
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The Don said:
They are hopeless IMO if their main message is just "Not Trump".
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Maybe, maybe not. Remember, much of the Trump/republican success was "not Hillary", and many election campaigns have relied heavily on negative messages (e.g. the Willie Horton ads targeting Dukakis in the 1988 election). Trump is an extremely polarizing figure, and his actions have driven away many moderates and some that just "wanted a change", so a campaign which features a "worst of Trump" might get some traction.

I'm also assuming that a "worst of trump" message would actually contain some indication of how they (meaning the democrats) would be different. I am also assuming that they would actually have concrete policies, even if they were not central to their campaign (unlike Trump and the republicans).
 
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ponderingturtle said:
jimbob said:
I suppose Trump is authentic, in that he comes across as having no redeeming features, and indeed that is the case.

I would say that "authenticity" generally involves some self-awareness, and a recognition of the difference between truth and falsehood. But then I also don't think that the bible is an interesting window into the minds and culture of its writers.
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Well being a racist seems to be a positive trait to his base.
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Agreed, but surely his racism and misogyny can't outweigh the negative features of his personality?

I can see that his inability to articulate what he's thinking (due to it being unclear to him, rather than any specific problem in communication) might play to the moron base.

However surely even his base *must* realise in their heart of hearts that Trump can't differentiate between truth and falsehood?

Surely, Trump's fragile ego isn't attractive?

Surely his lack of loyalty isn't attractive?
 
Segnosaur said:
According to his Wikipedia page, he is a global warming denier, and he is opposed to abortion. Some of his stances seemed to have changed over time however (such as becoming more accepting of same sex marriage).


There are a few of them. Sadly very few. Another one is David Frum (a former speech writer for Bush) who wrote a book called Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic. He also compared the Trump presidency to gum disease.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/...dency-is-like-america-s-gum-disease-1.4498767
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Probably, I was negative on his denial of global warming.

Another decent conservative is David Brooks. The National Review guys are also pretty principled. This is not to say I agree with their principles, mind you.
 
jimbob said:
Agreed, but surely his racism and misogyny can't outweigh the negative features of his personality?

I can see that his inability to articulate what he's thinking (due to it being unclear to him, rather than any specific problem in communication) might play to the moron base.

However surely even his base *must* realise in their heart of hearts that Trump can't differentiate between truth and falsehood?

Surely, Trump's fragile ego isn't attractive?

Surely his lack of loyalty isn't attractive?
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They don't care about any of that. They think they're getting what they think they want.

That's all that matters.

Morals, ethics, whatever few personal standards they may claim they have ... all of that is cast aside as long as they think they are getting what they think they want.

That Trump is legitimizing public displays of sexism, racism, bigotry and general churlishness is just an added benefit as far as they are concerned.

It means they can quit pretending.
 
The Don said:
They are hopeless IMO if their main message is just "Not Trump".
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I think it depends on the race.

80 percent of 44 percent of 58 percent. ... Dems deserve to lose if they can't beat that.

I'm pretty sure that there's a difference between "I oppose abortion" vs. "I want to force women to bear babies who have no brains" AND "I want to keep babies with no brains alive as long as humanly possible, no matter what it costs." But I could be wrong!
 
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