The Trump Presidency (Act V - The One Where Everybody Dies)

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Yeah, this is not the condemnation of immigration by US citizens it is being presented as.
 
Minoosh said:
Skeptic Ginger, you have at least twice told me how I arrive at my opinions and you've been wrong both times. Please stop.

Here's how I have followed the issues: [snipped things not questioned].
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I never said you weren't well informed or intelligent. And I'm sorry. I get carried away with my annoyance at seeing all the dishonest framing and marketing as the GOP effectively makes the narrative about the Democrats' failings and the Dems are very poor countering it.

You repeated a false GOP talking point. You said:
Is this the place to say that it's lunacy to tie DACA to a whole bunch of huge issues? This is not Trump's fault. I've seen the "Dream Act" get hosed again and again as it's conflated with other immigration issues.
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How are Trump and the GOP not directly responsible for refusing a 'clean DACA bill'?
A clean DACA bill would pass, IMO.
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Of course it would. How is Trump not responsible for waffling on his statements then saying the Wall had to be part of the deal? How are McConnell and Ryan not the ones refusing to bring a DACA bill to the floor?

You went on to say:
And yet, long before Trump, they have been a "bargaining chip" that precludes a clean DACA bill.
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That's not true. DACA was never in play until Trump annulled Obama's executive order. His motives likely included destroy anything Obama and please the base. Then when he looked really bad for that action, he went on to pretend the reason was to get legislation instead of an executive order.


Minoosh said:
I didn't say they were. I was talking about my frustration with Congress as a whole over the years. For better or worse I haven't even been paying attention to who's doing what right now. But I absolutely have not been influenced by Trump/GOP talking points on this issue. I watch virtually no television and haven't been on CNN's site in days.
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OK fine, then why drag the Democrats down with this false equivalency?

Minoosh said:
I'm talking about what has happened with this bill over the years. I didn't watch any Pence speeches. I don't listen to anything Sarah Huckabee Sanders says. I didn't even know the GOP was blaming Democrats for the holdup. I plead ignorance, but please be aware that I am not someone who is easily manipulated by the media. I've spent a good deal of time demolishing talking points by insisting on adding perspective to stories, filling in gaping holes and sometimes asking awkward questions. I had huge leeway to do this and was highly trusted.

If I was still doing my old job I would be following these machinations closely but right now I'm ignoring it. Too crazy-making. I know I'm not falling for any GOP finger-pointing. You can draw your own conclusions.
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The messages are not all direct. The message permeates, influencing people.

Answer me why you are lumping the Democrats into to the group you blame and what should they have done differently?
 
The Don said:
President Trump isn't the problem IMO, he's a symptom of the problem (a potent mix of selfishness, racism, xenophobia, fear of losing power, lack of respect for expertise and experts and inerrancy). If people start getting deported, President Trump's support will actually get a slight bump because the 35-40% who already love him will continue to love him and a proportion of the remainder will support him because he's a strong President, doing what he promised and protecting America. :rolleyes:

The people who will be incensed at the deportations are IMO already vehemently anti-Trump.
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Well, Trump is the problem because he's amplifying the rest, but I agree with your post except for that.

I think the money and resources behind Trump are responsible for Trump being POTUS. Were it not for the Mercer's and Russia being behind him, and the MSM playing his campaign speeches live in full day after day, Trump could have never become POTUS on his own.
 
blutoski said:
To be honest, I feel like the whole Melania thing is that she was under the impression the election was a public relations stunt, this First Lady thing is the opposite of how she expected to spend the next four years.

I think she's just getting tired of it all.
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Surely embarrassment and maybe what Baron is exposed to may be an issue. She thought she'd be a pampered FLOTUS, like Jackie maybe. This makes her look really bad, not just Trump.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Surely embarrassment and maybe what Baron is exposed to may be an issue. She thought she'd be a pampered FLOTUS, like Jackie maybe. This makes her look really bad, not just Trump.
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Honestly, my prevailing model is that Trump 2016 was a PR stunt, and shipwrecked whatever Melania thought they'd be doing for the next half decade. The whole family is under a magnifying glass, their time isn't really their own anymore, and I think they can't wait for it to be over.

The Russia collusion was not supposed to be investigated, because they didn't expect to win.
 
blutoski said:
Honestly, my prevailing model is that Trump 2016 was a PR stunt, and shipwrecked whatever Melania thought they'd be doing for the next half decade. The whole family is under a magnifying glass, their time isn't really their own anymore, and I think they can't wait for it to be over.

The Russia collusion was not supposed to be investigated, because they didn't expect to win.
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Reminds me of the weird "Lexx" series, in which a collection of misfits stumble into exclusive control of the Lexx - the most powerful weapon of destruction in the two universes. And have no freaking idea whatsoever what to do with it. All they can think about is getting laid. Except for the dead guy, who just wants to sleep in his cryo chamber. And none of them can even manage to accomplish those limited goals.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Looks like document page 68, and no they were not.

Page 74 is also interesting, it shows a deal trading DACA for the wall is approved of by a 60/40 split across all social divisions. It's the most even metric in the poll.
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...and if that happens, then that's why the Democrats will lose again, and again.

Trading something you don't want to do (fund the wall) for something we both want to (renew DACA) doesn't really sound like a smart trade to me. That sounds like Mrs Don saying we can go out for a meal (something we both want to do) if I do the washing up. That not a good deal because she gets everything she wants. Much better if I trade doing the washing up for something like her doing the ironing.
 
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