Proof of Immortality, VII

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That's because brains are radios tuned into a particular clump of consciousness from a finite pool. If you copy the radio, either it will be tuned into the same clump ("looking out 2 sets of eyes") or a different clump ("we have no idea who it would be").
 
But even with the inane "radio" analogy there would have to be some difference between the two radios or the two "signals" they are picking up for there to be any functional differences.

Again we're back to explaining to a grown man that 1 and 2 aren't the same number.
 
JoeMorgue said:
But even with the inane "radio" analogy there would have to be some difference between the two radios or the two "signals" they are picking up for there to be any functional differences.
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He believes the difference is that they are tuned to different radio stations (different consciousnesses). If they weren't you would have I jabba soul looking out through 2 sets of eyes.

He is starting from the pre-supposition that consciousness is not produced by the brain, rather the brain is receiving it.

JoeMorgue said:
Again we're back to explaining to a grown man that 1 and 2 aren't the same number.
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He thinks this:

Humans are 50% body and 50% souls (which exist separate from the body in a 'finite pool').

If you make a copy, either need to have that body tuned into receiving the same soul as the first, or tuned into a different soul.
If it is the latter, they are not the same humans. If it is the former. they are not completely separate and distinct.

Please note, I don't accept any of this, I'm just bored with the thread so am playing at being a jabba-analyst.
 
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The Sparrow said:
He is starting from the pre-supposition that consciousness is not produced by the brain, rather the brain is receiving it.
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Yeah I'm aware of that. That was the exact same pre=supposition he started with 5 years ago and hasn't moved an inch from while not so much as pretending to make at attempt to try and act like he's ever going to support that in any way.

Again we all know what Jabba is doing.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Yeah I'm aware of that. That was the exact same pre=supposition he started with 5 years ago and hasn't moved an inch from while not so much as pretending to make at attempt to try and act like he's ever going to support that in any way.

Again we all know what Jabba is doing.
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Of course. I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence. 99% of you all are smarter than me. :)
I'm just trying to make the thread more efficient by being a "proxy jabba".

His other point will be that if you reject all the brain radio business, then you are left with any possible combination of atoms that make up a human being 1/a zillion zillion likely. Just like bananas....somehow. And since particular humans are so unlikely, the brain must be a radio.

Hell if I keep this up I may earn the honour of appearing on his "map".
 
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The Sparrow said:
It is that sense of observer identity we "all" have. The observer that remembers the first time we peed our pants and also remembers yesterday' supper. ;)
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Not quite. The brain has the information and the observer is helpfully updated with it when the unconscious system sees fit. As such the "self" is literally an observer, the audience to the body's actors.
 
Thing is, we learned quite a few things from neurology, and chiefest among that is that the conscious mind makes no decision whatsoever. It's really a narcissistic process that's generated after the fact so that the person thinks they're really important and fights more intensely for their own survival. It's a tool of the body to propagate the genes and nothing more.
 
Belz... said:
Thing is, we learned quite a few things from neurology, and chiefest among that is that the conscious mind makes no decision whatsoever. It's really a narcissistic process that's generated after the fact so that the person thinks they're really important and fights more intensely for their own survival. It's a tool of the body to propagate the genes and nothing more.
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Agreed. We tell ourselves so many stories to try to deny it. Consumer society offers so much to try to distance ourselves from the biological nature machines that we really are. I really want to work a lot harder at re-integrating myself back with the biological reality of what I really am. IMHO, christianity does a lot of damage that way too. All this soul nonsense and dominion OVER nature.
Don't ya get it, you ARE nature. :D
 
The Sparrow said:
Agreed. We tell ourselves so many stories to try to deny it. Consumer society offers so much to try to distance ourselves from the biological nature machines that we really are. I really want to work a lot harder at re-integrating myself back with the biological reality of what I really am. IMHO, christianity does a lot of damage that way too. All this soul nonsense and dominion OVER nature.
Don't ya get it, you ARE nature. :D
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Well, they are consequences of the illusion, so it's to be expected.
 
Jabba said:
- Good.
- I think that you agree that
1. Consciousness naturally entails a self,
2. A perfect copy of your body/brain would not reproduce your particular self -- there would be a difference between the two selves.
3. This difference would not be the result of body chemistry -- the chemistry of the two bodies would be exactly the same.
4. The bodily difference between the two would be in location and specific molecules.
5. We have no idea if, and how, these differences would determine "who" the new self would be.
6. The who/self to which I'm referring is the thing/process/experience that reincarnationists think returns.

- Where, exactly, do we run afoul?
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godless dave said:
We run afoul on #5. The only difference between the two selves would be their locations and the matter they are made of. That information is all we need to know who each one is.

In the materialist hypothesis, what makes me me is that I am this body. What makes you you is that you are that body. That's it. There's nothing additional required to establish an identity.
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Jabba said:
Dave,
-The new body would be you, but it wouldn't bring you back to life?
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godless dave said:
The new body wouldn't be this body. What makes me me is that I am this body.
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- So, the new body would not be you.
 
Jabba said:
- So, the new body would not be you.
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What does it matter? You'll just lie and say we agree with you anyway.

We don't recognize the distinction you are making. Hiding it behind "Have you stopped beating your wife yet" is dishonest.
 
We should be ashamed that at no point in this five year death march have we not addressed the "Would having sex with an exact copy of yourself be gay or masturbation?" question.
 
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