Cont: The Trump Presidency Part IV

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baron said:
Maybe so but it doesn't even matter. I dislike Trump intensely, mainly because he's a shallow, vacant moron, but I wouldn't presume that my personal tastes should have any impact on the relationship between the UK and the US. Since when has international relations been dictated by the mob, and a self-serving, virtue-signalling mob at that?
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Sometimes the mob as you call them are right, and this is one of them. Its not possible to have normal relations with the Trump administration because they're not normal.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Khan didn't say Trump wasn't welcome in the UK, he said he wasn't welcome in London. Seems that there's nothing in his statement that indicates he's unaware that London isn't the entirety of the UK.
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That's Khan's opinion, and his opinion is worth exactly that of every other British citizen. It's just sad that someone in his position is jumping on the bandwagon and personalising something that should have zero to do with personality and everything to do with high level international relations. It's pathetic, it's childish, it's egotistical nonsense.. and what does that description remind you of? You got it, Trump himself.
 
baron said:
It's not Trump, it's the office of US president. Big difference. We can't rescind relations with a country on the basis that its president is a twat...
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Who said that they would be 'rescinding relations'. Trump may not visit, but the 2 countries will still continue trading with each other, have embassies in each other's countries, have meetings between various diplomats.
 
Segnosaur said:
Who said that they would be 'rescinding relations'. Trump may not visit, but the 2 countries will still continue trading with each other, have embassies in each other's countries, have meetings between various diplomats.
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It's all part of the same game. You can't tell the president of a country they're not welcome on your soil without repurcussions, and with Trump you can imagine those repercussions could be significant. Trump is an egotist who functions at the level of an infant, so if he takes offence at any perceived slight it could mean the UK misses out on lucrative trade deals.

As for Khan, here's what I would do in his position. Instead of whinging and scoring Twitter points I'd meet with Trump when he came over, treat him respectfully, then raise my concerns about his personal behaviour face to face, in private, like a man, like a real politician, not a whiny little populist bitch.
 
baron said:
That's Khan's opinion, and his opinion is worth exactly that of every other British citizen. It's just sad that someone in his position is jumping on the bandwagon and personalising something that should have zero to do with personality and everything to do with high level international relations. It's pathetic, it's childish, it's egotistical nonsense.. and what does that description remind you of? You got it, Trump himself.
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Either his opinion is worth exactly that of every other British citizen, or it's relevant to high level international relations.
 
baron said:
Maybe so but it doesn't even matter. I dislike Trump intensely, mainly because he's a shallow, vacant moron, but I wouldn't presume that my personal tastes should have any impact on the relationship between the UK and the US. Since when has international relations been dictated by the mob, and a self-serving, virtue-signalling mob at that?
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Are you playing some game of alt-right buzzword bingo? And the answer to your question is every day since Trump was elected. His every action in terms of foreign relations has been dictated by the desire to gain the approval of the 'deplorables' who make up Trump's base.

baron said:
As for Khan, here's what I would do in his position. Instead of whinging and scoring Twitter points I'd meet with Trump when he came over, treat him respectfully, then raise my concerns about his personal behaviour face to face, in private, like a man, like a real politician, not a whiny little populist bitch.
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Utter nonsense, if anyone is a 'whiny populist bitch' it would be Trump. Respect is earned and what has Trump done to deserve respect? if anyone has shown disprespect to the office of the President of the United States its the current incumbent.
 
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Either his opinion is worth exactly that of every other British citizen, or it's relevant to high level international relations.
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I'm suggesting that it is his opinion, and as such no more valid than anybody else's. Obvious as Mayor of London he has leverage.
 
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Garrison said:
Are you playing some game of alt-right buzzword bingo? And the answer to your question is every day since Trump was elected. His every action in terms of foreign relations has been dictated by the desire to gain the approval of the 'deplorables' who make up Trump's base.
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Eh? I'm talking about demonstrations in the UK, not elections in the US (with 'the mob', I guess, being the voters you disagree with, but that's another story I have no interest in pursuing). I know you lot sometimes forget there is land beyond your shores, but do try to keep up.
 
BobTheCoward said:
If those were the types of countries he was talking about (with czars or war, or dictatorship) that would be one thing. It seems the big thing the ones he was talking about (other than being filled with black people) is they are poorer and less developed. Well, the US is poorer and less developed than 50 years in the future
Does that make every country a hole?
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Come on Bob: my grandparents weren't digging potatoes for a hobby . The areas in Eastern Europe from which they fled were dirt poor and and undeveloped. They came to the USA for economic opportunity, as did (and do) the bulk of immigrants to the USA. Sure they also suffered religious oppression (I don't think they had the spare time to even think of politics) but they primarily wanted better food and housing for themselves and they wanted their children to not have to dig potatoes like they did. My grandparents were exactly the kind of people that Trump is inveighing against today, except they spoke Yiddish instead of Spanish or Arabic or Swahili or Yoruba.
 
baron said:
I'm suggesting that it is his opinion, and as such no more valid than anybody else's. Obvious as Mayor of London he has leverage.
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You don't believe the Mayor of London has any means by which he can gather data on what people who live in London think? I mean, we know from polling data that Khan is one of the most popular politicians in the country - even (especially?) after he's called out Trump for erroneous and tactless statements about London terrorist attacks - and we know from polling data that a plurality of British people don't think Trump should be allowed to visit the UK. So what his opinions are more popular than Trump's in the UK, and from what data is publicly available we know that what he's saying agrees with what the plurality of people in Britain think. Given the ethnic make-up of London (and the disruption it would cause in London) it seems reasonable to assume that a greater number of Londoners than the general population would be opposed to Trump visiting, and given that Khan is the Mayor of London it seems reasonable that he would have access to more data than the general public.

So on what basis do you claim that his opinion is just the same as everybody else's? And even if it is, given that it's in line with that of a plurality of the UK and that part of his job is literally to speak on behalf of Londoners, on what basis are you claiming that he can't speak on behalf of Londoners on this matter?
 
BobTheCoward said:
If those were the types of countries he was talking about (with czars or war, or dictatorship) that would be one thing. It seems the big thing the ones he was talking about (other than being filled with black people) is they are poorer and less developed. Well, the US is poorer and less developed than 50 years in the future
Does that make every country a hole?
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And also worth noting: the geographic regions that disproportionately voted for Trump are themselves relatively underdeveloped and poor. Does he think his fans live in ********* too?
 
mgidm86 said:
Haiti is a ****hole country.

He could have asked why we seem to bring in so many people from poor countries instead, which is a question many Americans ask. He said ****hole instead (allegedly), which again, is exactly the way many Americans phrase it. I'm sure nobody here has ever said that though, of course.

I agree with his general sentiment - immigration is out of control. We bring in too many people we can't afford to take care of. I have said it in exactly the same way. ****hole countries. Doesn't make someone a racist. If you think it does well too bad for you. Russia is a ****hole country, I think.

I love some of the media hysteria over this: "If Trump said this then he is absolutely a racist!" bla bla bla. Same ol' same ol'. The more people bitch the more - nothing. It hasn't helped one bit. It really hasn't, has it?

Pick and choose your outrage and maybe I'll listen, but it's just white noise these days (no pun). We aren't always defending Trump - a lot of the time we are just sick of hysterical ninnies hogging all the news sites.
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Let's not focus on the racisim, the man is entitled to his opinion.

Look at what he said "why do we take in people from poor areas of the world? ".

This is just dripping idiocy, it's like asking why there are only poor people at the food bank. Chances are most *********** people leave their country looking for a better life. De facto, this means if you allow immigration the people immigrating are generally going to be from places that suck compared to your country. It's not a question that requires deep thought,it's the kind of question a drunk tenth grader would ask, thinking its edgy.

Maybe it shows he is racist, maybe not. But what it does show is the man is both a moron and rather mean spirited, not qualities that I generally admire.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
In what way and in what world are they NOT ******** countries?
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In what way and in what wield does a grown *********** man need to be explained the concept of immigration? He can be racist all he wants, that is his right. But seriously this knob literally had no understanding of immigration based on this comment.

It would be like asking why only your poor friends need to borrow food. It's just, dumb. There is a whole other level of sadness if we were to get into the benefits of this type of immigration and why it is done, but I'm not going to go there.

The man is a *********** toadstool, or maybe just a regular stool,.
 
pgwenthold said:
Let me guess: he's outraged.

And then he's going to vote for the next Trump nominee and legislation
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It's the same unenviable situation that someone like Jeff Flake finds himself in. What do you do when a political leader you consider to be personally loathsome keeps promoting policies you agree with? Should you suddenly start backing what you think are really lousy policies just because some scumbag stole a bunch of the good ideas?
 
blutoski said:
And also worth noting: the geographic regions that disproportionately voted for Trump are themselves relatively underdeveloped and poor. Does he think his fans live in ********* too?
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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
-President Lyndon B. Johnson
 
baron said:
It's all part of the same game. You can't tell the president of a country they're not welcome on your soil without repurcussions, and with Trump you can imagine those repercussions could be significant. Trump is an egotist who functions at the level of an infant, so if he takes offence at any perceived slight it could mean the UK misses out on lucrative trade deals.

As for Khan, here's what I would do in his position. Instead of whinging and scoring Twitter points I'd meet with Trump when he came over, treat him respectfully, then raise my concerns about his personal behaviour face to face, in private, like a man, like a real politician, not a whiny little populist bitch.
Click to expand...

House of cards staring John Wayne.
 
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