Merged Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program UFO'S

[smartcooky]

Wrong again because you can obtain copies of the news articles including articles where the Air Force ordered its pilots to shoot down flying saucers, even documents and letters where balloon scientist reported tracking flying saucers and in one case, as the objects hovered 200 miles above the earth and that was years before mankind sent the first spacecraft into orbit.

In many cases, they are, such as radar/visual encounters and optical and other data our deep space surveillance assets have proven.

They are evidence of unidentified aerial phenomena.... they are NOT, repeat, EMPHATICALLY, NOT evidence of extraterrestrial spacecraft.

All you have done so far in this thread is provide evidence of things in the sky that have not yet been identified. You have NOT provided any evidence that these phenomena are in any way connected with aliens

In my case, it does

You are not so special that you can ignore the rules of debate... you can't even keep your lies straight.

How did UFO skeptics feel when the Air Force trashed its Roswell weather balloon story in 1994? In that regard, that was strike one. Strike two came when UFO skeptics allowed themselves to be duped by the Air Force again when it managed to convinced them that its replacement for its weather balloon story was a Project Mogul balloon flight #4 that never was, and that according to Project Mogul balloon records. And, strike three came when the Air Force duped UFO skeptics in 1997 after the Air Force claimed that alien bodies people saw in 1947, were test dummies from 'Operation High Dive' which didn't begin operations until the 1950's, which told me that UFO skeptics are not in the habit of doing homework.

The objects recovered on the Foster ranch near Roswell were parts of a Project Mogul Balloon Train. This is a verified fact. If you think otherwise, you have to explain how it is that many of the recovered parts, as well as parts that were recalled by the witesses, were en exact match for a Signal Corps ML-307B RAWIN target.

the balsa sticks,
the ‘tinfoil,’
the reinforcing tape with pinkish-purple flowers
the patches of a smelly, smoky gray, rubber-like material
the eyelets,
the tough paper,
the four-inch-diameter aluminium rings
the black battery box

All these materials were used in the NYU balloon flight trains, and those same materials were identified by independent witnesses at Roswell. Charles B. Moore participated in the manufacture of over 100 of these targets, and he recognised them for what they were.

Any suggestion that the wreckage in General Ramey’s office was just a weather balloon switched for the “real debris,” is just pure bunkum. Prof. Moore pointed out that the radar targets used by NYU were unlike anything flown in New Mexico before. W/O Newton recognizes the debris because he used an early version of these same targets when he was a weatherman in Okinawa.

In my case, they are because I do my homework and it is very clear that you don't.

Again, you are not so special that you can ignore the rules of debate. No-one here is going to do YOUR research for you; no-one here (except for the wilfully blind and stupid) places any store whatsoever in anything you post.

 

[Hans]

Well, Skyeagle, if aliens really are flying around, what next? What are you going to do about it? Right now, you're just posting on an obscure internet forum (all fora are obscure, come to that). Why aren't you grabbing generals and politicians by the lapels and demanding action? action! ACTION!!!!

What kind of action? Hell, I don't know. You're the ufoologist, you tell me.

On usenet long ago a discussion went on for some time about what they could do. The problem; no one could agree.

Generally they came up with: do nothing, post messages, repost old reports, commit pious fraud in 'upgrading' reports by making stuff up about them.

A few thought they should assault Area 51 with cameras in tow, a tiny minority thought they should go in with weapons, a few thought about kidnapping 'a VIP' in charge of hiding the UFO info - however nobody could agree who these people were.

A few wanted to try bribing a poor country's 'UFO VIPS' to cough up the evidence (based on the idea that all the governments were in on the conspiracy). I think another idea was to set up 'UFO' traps or places to lure them (a lot of silly stuff about that).....basically they did nothing.

 

[John Jones]

[...]
Speaking of 'nutjobs' let's remember that UFO skeptics allowed themselves to be duped by the Air Force over its 47-year weather balloon story, which believers knew was false because it wouldn't have taken a large group of military personnel to recover a single weather balloon after posting roadblocks. HINT!

How did UFO skeptics feel when the Air Force trashed its Roswell weather balloon story in 1994? In that regard, that was strike one. Strike two came when UFO skeptics allowed themselves to be duped by the Air Force again when it managed to convinced them that its replacement for its weather balloon story was a Project Mogul balloon flight #4 that never was, and that according to Project Mogul balloon records. And, strike three came when the Air Force duped UFO skeptics in 1997 after the Air Force claimed that alien bodies people saw in 1947, were test dummies from 'Operation High Dive' which didn't begin operations until the 1950's, which told me that UFO skeptics are not in the habit of doing homework.

The Air Force depends upon ignorance to get its false claims accepted by closed-minded UFO skeptics who are not in the habit of doing homework or doing it properly when they do.


.

If you want to discuss Roswell again, I suggest you start another thread on it, and stop jumping all over the UFO landscape.

 

[Hans]

If you want to discuss Roswell again, I suggest you start another thread on it, and stop jumping all over the UFO landscape.

Kinda of a Gish Gallop, rushing here and there and trying to stir the air and make it look like he's accomplishing something.

 

[sackett]

On usenet long ago a discussion went on for some time about what they could do. The problem; no one could agree.

Generally they came up with: do nothing, post messages, repost old reports, commit pious fraud in 'upgrading' reports by making stuff up about them.

A few thought they should assault Area 51 with cameras in tow, a tiny minority thought they should go in with weapons, a few thought about kidnapping 'a VIP' in charge of hiding the UFO info - however nobody could agree who these people were.

A few wanted to try bribing a poor country's 'UFO VIPS' to cough up the evidence (based on the idea that all the governments were in on the conspiracy). I think another idea was to set up 'UFO' traps or places to lure them (a lot of silly stuff about that).....basically they did nothing.

Wow. Talk about obscure. But still interesting; I never knew that ufoolgists went so far as even to moot ideas about Resolving This Great Crisis.

The point of my little post was only to ask Skyeagle "wot's it awl about, Alfie?" If he convinces anybody that We Are Not Alone, is there a next step?

Let's hear his reply. Lead us, Eagle of the Blue Skies!

 

[BStrong]

In regard to the Navy's UFO encounter, this image is clear enough to see that the craft is not a balloon nor an airplane and notice the glow around the craft.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/asse...se-unidentified-flying-object-exlarge-169.jpg


The maneuvers described by one of the pilots excludes mankind as the owner of those objects by the fact we have no such vehicles capable of such extreme maneuvers and that is one reason why the USAF concluded that the objects in question are not of this earth.

When are you going to answer the question in post 323?

So what does the link to the article about the Tuskegee Airman have to do with you and what does it have to do with UFO's?

 

[Donn]

Kinda of a Gish Gallop, rushing here and there and trying to stir the air and make it look like he's accomplishing something.

Flying saucers; making it a dish gallop!

 

[Hans]

Wow. Talk about obscure. But still interesting; I never knew that ufoolgists went so far as even to moot ideas about Resolving This Great Crisis.

I don't recall that many had these types of idea. I suspect it was a very small subset. It's like fringe archaeology folks, they rarely consider the idea of funding long-term excavations or re-evaluations of existing collections. Instead they see the idea of making Youtubes about long debunked ideas or endlessly attacking orthodox positions to be wildly more 'useful'. SE seems to have a similar view.

 

[smartcooky]

...a few thought about kidnapping 'a VIP' in charge of hiding the UFO info - however nobody could agree who these people were.

I don't get why those Flying Saucer nutjobs couldn't work out who was responsible for the cover up. Every knows its "them"(whoever "they" are).

 

[Hans]

I don't get why those Flying Saucer nutjobs couldn't work out who was responsible for the cover up. Every knows its "them"(whoever "they" are).

An old joke from the early years; 'UFO guys worried about THEM showed up at the 1950's movie 'Them' and shot up the screen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them!

 

[skyeagle409]

I don't get why those Flying Saucer nutjobs couldn't work out who was responsible for the cover up. Every knows its "them"(whoever "they" are).

As a reminder, the real nutjobs are the UFO skeptics who believed the military sent a large group of personnel to conduct recovery operations and set up road blocks in order to recover a single weather balloon and they believed it for 47-years despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[skyeagle409]

An old joke from the early years; 'UFO guys worried about THEM showed up at the 1950's movie 'Them' and shot up the screen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them!

Speaking of movies, the movie, "Earth vs. the Flying Saucers," was an idea based on the 1952 UFO incidents over Washington D.C.

Perhaps some day, they will make a movie depicting events as they occurred about the Navy pilot's encounters with a weather balloon that somehow out-flew their jets.

 

[skyeagle409]

[qimg]https://i.imgflip.com/224x1s.jpg[/qimg]

This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be

Speaking of balloons;

Inflatable Spacecraft Launches, Falcon 9 Successfully Returns to Earth

t looks like the outer space equivalent of a bounce house, but Bigelow’s BEAM could make space travel cheaper and safer.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...nches-falcon-9-successfully-returns-to-earth/

Perhaps, that is what the Navy pilots encountered; balloons that exhibit advanced technology not found in NASA's closet.

 

[skyeagle409]

They are evidence of unidentified aerial phenomena.... they are NOT, repeat, EMPHATICALLY, NOT evidence of extraterrestrial spacecraft.

Of course it is!!

The objects recovered on the Foster ranch near Roswell were parts of a Project Mogul Balloon Train.

False! The Air Force said it was a classified Project Mogul balloon train #4 that was recovered, but that is false because according to Project Mogul balloon records, there was no such thing as Project Mogul balloon flight #4 and a Project Mogul balloon flight was cancelled on June 4, 1947 due to clouds. BTW, Mogul balloons were just nothing more than unclassified research balloons that were often recovered by civilians for rewards. In other words, UFO skeptics allowed themselves to be duped with the Air Force's 47-year weather balloon story which it trashed in 1994.

Just goes to show how simple it was for the Air Force to dupe the UFO skeptics. Did you know that Charles Moore, head of Project Mogul, reported tracking a flying saucer? A simple research effort on your part would have highlighted details regarding his UFO tracking report. In fact, there are documents that cover the tracking of flying saucers by Project Mogul and Project Skyhook balloon teams over New Mexico.

Any suggestion that the wreckage in General Ramey’s office was just a weather balloon switched for the “real debris,” is just pure bunkum. Prof. Moore pointed out that the radar targets used by NYU were unlike anything flown in New Mexico before....

Now that you brought up Charles Moore again, let's take a look at his UFO report. Now, for the rest of the story about Charles Moore.

Project Mogul UFO Sightings
Charles Moore, Head of Project Mogul, UFO Report

INCIDENT 3. On April 24,1949 at 10:20 a.m., a group of five technicians under the general supervision of J. Gordon Vaeth, an aeronautical engineer employed by the Office of Naval Research, were preparing to launch a Skyhook balloon near Arrey, N. Mex. A small balloon was sent up first to check the weather. Charles B. Moore Jr., an aerologist of General Mills Inc. (pioneers in cosmic ray research) was tracking the weather balloon through a theodolite -- a 25-power telescopic instrument, which gives degrees of azimuth and elevation (horizontal and vertical position) for any object it is sighted on.

At 10:30 a.m. Moore leaned back from the theodolite to glance at the balloon with his naked eye. Suddenly he saw a whitish elliptical object, apparently much higher than the balloon, and moving, in the opposite direction. At once he picked the object up in his theodolite at 45 degrees of elevation and 210 degrees of azimuth, and tracked it east at the phenomenal rate of 5 d of azimuth-change per second as it dropped swiftly to an elevation of 25 d. The Object appeared to be an ellipsoid roughly two and a half times as long as it was wide. Suddenly it swung abruptly upward and rushed out of sight in a few seconds. Moore had tracked it for about 60 seconds altogether. The other members of his crew confirmed his report. No sound was heard, no vapor trail was seen. The object, according to rough estimations by Moore and his colleagues, was about 56 miles above the earth, 100 feet long and was traveling at seven miles per second.
Note at the top mention of a radar sighting by another Mogul person of multiple objects hovering motionless at an altitude of 200 miles!!
http://www.roswellproof.com/LIFE_1952.html

http://www.roswellproof.com/Mogul_UFOs.html

W/O Newton recognizes the debris because he used an early version of these same targets when he was a weatherman in Okinawa.

Of course it was a weather balloon rawin device, but that particular weather balloon rawin device was taken off the shelf and deliberately destroyed and placed in Ramey's office in order to push the Roswell cover-up, that according to Colonel Thomas Dubose, who is seen posing with the debris in Ramey's office.

AFFIDAVIT

(1) My name is Thomas Jefferson Dubose

(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX

(3) I retired from the U.S. Air force in 1959 with the rank of Brigadier General.

(4) In July 1947, I was stationed at Fort Worth Army Air Field [later Carswell Air Force Base] in Fort Worth, Texas. I served as Chief of Staff to Major General Roger Ramey, Commander, Eight Air Force. I had the rank of Colonel.

(5) In early July, I received a phone call from Maj. Gen. Clements McMullen, Deputy Commander, Strategic Air Command. He asked what we knew about the object which had been recovered outside Roswell, New Mexico, as reported in the press. I called Col. William Blanchard, Commander of the Roswell Army Air Field and directed him to send the material in a sealed container to me at Fort Worth. I so informed Maj. Gen. McMullen.

(6) After the plane from Roswell arrived with the material, I asked the Base Commander, Col. Al Clark, to take possession of the material and to personally transport it in a B-26 to Maj. Gen. McMullen in Washington, D.C. I notified Maj. Gen. McMullen, and he told me he would send the material by personal courier on his plane to Benjamin Chidlaw, Commanding General of the Air Material Command at Wright Field [later Wright Patterson AFB]. The entire operation was conducted under the strictest secrecy.

(7) The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press.
(8) I have not been paid or given anything of value to make this statement, which is the truth to the best of my recollection.

Signed: T. J. Dubose
Date: 9/16/91

Signature witnessed by:
Linda R. Split
Notary Public, State of Florida

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SSBSD-m-r8I/RkYBv0sDi0I/AAAAAAAAAIA/wvdX60l3RIg/s400/DuBose+Affidavit.jpg


Brig. Gen. Thomas Dubose

"There was a host of people descending on our headquarters seeking information from Ramey, badgering him for information we didn't have.

I didn't know what it was. Blanchard [base commander at Roswell] didn't know. Ramey didn't know... We didn't know what the hell it was. Nobody knew. But I can tell you this — it damn sure wasn't a weather balloon. ...McMullen said, Look, why don't you come up with something, anything you can use to get the press off our back? So we came up with this weather balloon story, which I thought was a hell of a good idea.
http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/10634/old-men-and-hard-truths/?tc=ar

In other words, what Dubose and others posed with in Ramey's office was not recovered from the Foster ranch, which is understandable considering that the Air Force threw out its false weather balloon claim in 1994. Now, for a document for which I know you were unaware of.

WAR V WU A50 NL PD
KALAMAZOO MICH JUL 8
WAR DEPT

INTELLIGENCE DIV WASHDC

****SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION ...****

The Rest of the Story

http://www.project1947.com/roswell/wkzo.gif

In other words, it suggest that a rawin device be used as a cover-up for the saucers (plural) in keeping with General Arthur Exon who confirmed there were two crash sites, and he should know considering that he was the Air Force officer who overflew the area and later became the commanding officer of Wright-Patterson AFB, where the Roswell UFO debris was taken, which he later confirmed.

There was never a valid reason to cover-up Project Mogul balloons because Mogul balloons were not classified and there were times the news media was invited to witness the launch of Project Mogul balloons and their experiments were also revealed in the newspapers the country. Case in point, where's the cover story for this balloon train that was recovered by two men? Amazing how the Air Force duped those who've allowed themselves to be duped into believing that Project Mogul was highly classified.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Trenton_Evening_Times_7-14-47.jpg

Edited by Agatha: 

tags removed around hotlinked photo[/edit]

[B]PRINCETON [/B]--- The equipment attached to a chain of 28 balloons set aloft here by the Naval Ordnance Laboratory on the Princeton University campus was recovered yesterday in Essex County and returned to the university for further study of the results of the experiment.

Despite the failure of the equipment to function perfectly because of a mechanical defect, Dr. Lloyd G. Lewis, in charge of the ascension, said he considered the experiment successful in that the instruments had remained well above 85,000 feet for more than three hours, and had been recovered for further study.

[HILITE]The purpose of the experiment was to obtain information about nuclear explosions[/HILITE] induced by cosmic rays, and the work is being done by Princeton University for the Office of Naval Research. The equipment, which, it was feared, might be carried out to sea, [HILITE]was found by Ben Thompson of Haskell, N. J., and Fred Hammond of Sussex, N. J.,[/HILITE] and turned over to the State Police Headquarters in Essex County, whence it was sent here.

[B]Newark Evening News, July 14[/B]

Sky Experiment Apparatus Found
Flight in Stratosphere Fails to Show Nuclear Explosions Data

[B]28 Balloons Fail To Send Reports on Cosmic Rays[/B]
--Attain 20-Mile Altitude, but Equipment Does [HILITE]Not Give Nuclear Explosion Data[/HILITE]

[B]Newark Evening News, July 14[/B]

Sky Experiment Apparatus Found
Flight in Stratosphere Fails to Show [HILITE]Nuclear Explosions Data[/HILITE]

[B]Newark (N.J.) Sunday News, July 13, 1947, Front Page[/B]

Balloons---Not Discs
Princeton Gadget Soars 20 Miles High; Records No Atomic Explosions

[url]http://roswellproof.homestead.com/Princeton_July12.html[/url]
[/quote]


No flying saucer recovery story for any Mogul balloon recoveries. So, the Air Force managed to dupe UFO skeptics into believing that Project Mogul balloons and their experiments were top secret when it fact, Project Mogul balloons and their experiments were covered in newspapers around the country, which shows just how effective the Air Force's disinformation campaign has worked on UFO skeptics, which isn't surprising considering the Air Force fooled them for 47-years over a weather balloon recovery that never was.

Notice that these photos depict recovered weather balloon rawin devices simlar to the one displayed in Ramey's office.

[B]Photos of recovered weather balloon rawin devices
[/B]
[url]http://roswellproof.homestead.com/files/greensny.jpg[/url]

[url]http://roswellproof.homestead.com/files/circle1s.jpg[/url]

[url]http://roswellproof.homestead.com/publishImages/Circleville~~element16.jpg[/url]

[url]http://roswellproof.homestead.com/files/circlev2.jpg[/url]


Notice that the photos of recovered rawin device do not look anything like the rawin device in Ramey's office in the next photo.

[url]http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-NM-Misc/BaloonDebris.jpg[/url]



[B]Exotic materials with properties described by Roswell witnesses are now a reality[/B]

[url]http://roswellproof.homestead.com/debris_main.html[/url]


[B]SCIENTIST ADMITS TO STUDY OF ROSWELL CRASH DEBRIS!
[/B]
[B](Confirmed by FOIA Document) by Anthony Bragalia[/B]

A research study that has recently been obtained through FOIA offers stunning confirmation that Wright-Patterson Air Force base contracted Battelle Memorial Institute to analyze material from a crashed UFO at Roswell in 1947. Remarkably, the co-author of this very metals study is the same scientist who decades ago had confessed that he had examined extraterrestrial metal from a crashed UFO while he was a research scientist at Battelle! This just-received document also reveals that another one of its metallurgist authors reported directly to a Battelle scientist who was conducting secret UFO studies for the USAF. It appears that the study represents first-ever attempts in creating highly novel and advanced Titanium alloys. Some of these alloys were later associated with the development of "memory metal" of the type reported as crash debris at Roswell.


[B]US Military are using smart metals similar to those found at the Roswell Crash In 1947[/B]

[url]http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/morphingmetals.html[/url]


I think it's time to get back on track and get off Roswell now that military officers, enlisted personnel and civil servants at Wright-Patterson AFB have now confirmed that the[I][U] Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials.[/U][/I]

 

[Cosmic Yak]

7 inches, equally spaced and radioactive.

Citation, please.

 

[John Jones]

Citation, please.

if he responds at all, Aubry will wax eloquent about some other UFO sighting altogether.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Exotic materials with properties described by Roswell witnesses are now a reality

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/debris_main.html


SCIENTIST ADMITS TO STUDY OF ROSWELL CRASH DEBRIS!

(Confirmed by FOIA Document) by Anthony Bragalia

A research study that has recently been obtained through FOIA offers stunning confirmation that Wright-Patterson Air Force base contracted Battelle Memorial Institute to analyze material from a crashed UFO at Roswell in 1947. Remarkably, the co-author of this very metals study is the same scientist who decades ago had confessed that he had examined extraterrestrial metal from a crashed UFO while he was a research scientist at Battelle! This just-received document also reveals that another one of its metallurgist authors reported directly to a Battelle scientist who was conducting secret UFO studies for the USAF. It appears that the study represents first-ever attempts in creating highly novel and advanced Titanium alloys. Some of these alloys were later associated with the development of "memory metal" of the type reported as crash debris at Roswell.




I think it's time to get back on track and get off Roswell now that military officers, enlisted personnel and civil servants at Wright-Patterson AFB have now confirmed that the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials.

I don't think we're at the stage yet where you can declare victory and walk away. I, for one, am still far from convinced by what you allege about Roswell.
I looked at your 'exotic materials' link, and two things struck me.
Firstly, I could not find anything in there that showed that the materials were of extra-terrestrial origin. The fact that the various witnesses did not know what they were looking at in no way supports the idea that this was alien technology. Moreover, at the bottom of each page is what seems to me to be a perfectly good explanation as to what the materials actually were. I'm thinking specifically of the wire and of the tape here.
Secondly, the reaction of the witnesses to their discovery seem rather strange. There is mention of the wood being uncuttable and unburnable; the wire was extremely difficult to snap, and the metal wouldn't bend even if someone was jumping up and down on it.
So what this is basically saying is that all these people found what they thought was a crashed UFO, and immediately set about trying to break, damage or destroy the debris. Why? Surely, if this was the discovery of the century, you would be doing everything in your power to preserve it? The military witnesses quoted there seem unperturbed by the fact that what they eventually saw was what was left after the determined attempts of a posse of ranchers to wreak as much damage as they could.
I can also find no mention, in this or in any of the many, many things you have linked to, that describes exactly what tests were carried out on the debris to determine that it was of extra-terrestrial origin. Your links say that it was delivered to the office of such-and-such an officer, who pronounced it as being alien. How? How was that conclusion formed?
Finally, you have made repeated challenges to skeptics to prove the Project Mogul explanation valid. As has been explained before, it's your claim and thus your burden of proof. All you have given us so far is your assertion that it wasn't Project Mogul. What you are so far lacking is any positive evidence for your case. If you want to say that the Roswell wreckage was extra-terrestrial, then prove it. Link us to the studies that prove this, or, even better, is there any of this debris left in the public domain, or available through FOI, that you can produce? You are presenting a false dichotomy here, by stating that, if it isn't military, it must be alien, without showing any proof of alien origins, and discounting the possibility of other options.

 

[John Jones]

Roswell: Anatomy of a Myth by Kent Jeffrey

http://www.roswellfiles.com/storytellers/KentJeffrey1.htm

 

[smartcooky]

Roswell: Anatomy of a Myth by Kent Jeffrey

http://www.roswellfiles.com/storytellers/KentJeffrey1.htm

Some very interesting passages in there, for a man who used to believe that the Roswell incident was a crashed UFO, and has now come to his senses and realised it was not. Furthermore, Jeffrey backs his assessment with EVIDENCE, something that is conspicuously absent in skyeagle409's posts

The 1948 Military Documents

For me, the beginning of the end for the Roswell UFO case came last spring, when I first saw one of a number of previously classified military documents dealing with unidentified flying objects. The 289-page document was released under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) in March 1996 in response to a FOIA request by researcher William LaParl. It contained the minutes of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board Conference at the Pentagon on March 17 and 18, 1948. Buried in the document is a very interesting statement by a Colonel Howard McCoy which referred to a number of unpublished UFO reports. The last sentence of McCoy's statement, however, is devastating to the Roswell case.

"We have a new project -- Project SIGN -- which may surprise you as a development from the so-called mass hysteria of the past Summer when we had all the unidentified flying objects or discs. This can't be laughed off. We have over 300 reports which haven't been publicized in the papers from very competent personnel, in many instances -- men as capable as Dr. K. D. Wood, and practically all Air Force, Airline people with broad experience. We are running down every report. I can't even tell you how much we would give to have one of those crash in an area so that we could recover whatever they are."

My first reaction to this statement was one of disbelief. Thoughts came to mind like- This can't be correct, there must be some mistake, this guy didn't know, etc.

The statement at the Scientific Advisory Board Conference lamenting the fact that the Air Force did not have a crashed UFO was made by Colonel Howard McCoy, the Chief of Intelligence for Air Material Command at Wright-Patterson AFB. Wright Patterson is where the Air Force's technical and intelligence experts are concentrated, even today. It is where recovered wreckage from a foreign craft of any kind with the potential for invading our skies would be taken for technical analysis -- be it a MIG 29 or a Klingon battle cruiser. If there had been a crashed flying saucer recovered outside of Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947, this is where it would have been taken. As Chief of Intelligence, Colonel Howard McCoy would have known about it.

The 1947 and 1948 military documents are definitive. They can not be simply or smugly characterized as absence of evidence. They are evidence. They state definitively that there was no crashed saucer.

While we have no idea what the debris from a crashed spaceship would look like, it is reasonable to assume that it would reflect a level of complexity and technological advancement beyond imagination. Postulating that a few pieces of foil, plastic-like material, and short beams constitute the remains of a machine of such capability and complexity is more than just a quantum leap, it is completely baseless and totally illogical.

Jeffrey even talks about skyeagle409....

Predictably, some in the UFO field are reacting to the 1947 and 1948 military documents with an attitude reminiscent of the platitude, don't bother me with the facts, my mind's made up. Ironically, this is the same type of mentality of which they are so quick to accuse their detractors

 

[steenkh]

Of course it is!!

How do you - or anybody else - determine that extraterrestrials are involved? Simply because you cannot imagine anything else?