I suppose that next we'll be hearing how this author is being "harassed" on social media like that goofball who told us that Jingle Bells is Racist
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The Perilous Whiteness of Pumpkins
- Thread starter Puppycow
- Start date
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- Tags
- racial issues
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
Except that wasn't what was said. The song "Jingle Bells" has its origin in something pretty damn racist. That doesn't make the song itself racist.
Which is a good example of people reacting to outrageous clickbait soundbyte misinterpretations of things rather than the thing itself. Perhaps people ought to read the pumpkin article after all.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Reactions to this seem all over the map. I've not seen the whole article but just commentary on it. It sounds rather silly to single out pumpkins as symbolic of privilege, but it isn't entirely off base either, I suspect. Seeing what to the native Americans and others was once a staple food as a mere decoration certainly says something about how we regard it, and the whole idea of lattes and specially flavored coffee-like substances certainly would seem like a celebration of privilege. But I wonder so what? So privilege exists, and unfortunately in this society that privilege tends to follow racial lines, but I think the two should be kept separate.
I would like to see equality, and I would like to see the gap between privilege and its lack shrunk and better distributed. But I am wary of levelers who suggest that this should be addressed by eliminating the things privilege buys, or by arbitrarily imposing sumptuary laws.
I'm somewhat reminded of the liberal dilemma of long ago (and probably the present too, though I saw it long ago), with regard to racial equality. I heard many people who ought to know better arguing that everyone should have equal opportunity to prosper, and then criticizing minority people who, having done so, abandoned their roots. It's so easy for someone in the white suburbs to advocate getting out of the ghetto until someone actually does.
Is there anything actually about pumpkin spice latte that requires it to be culturally biased or white, or is it just a cultural phenomenon? Is there some reason other than simple economics that prevents anyone anywhere from having one if they want one?
So yes, pumpkin spice latte and decorative gourds are external signs of a privileged culture which, incidentally is also racially biased, and along with that racially biased culture come some visible cultural divides, in what people get, what they seek, and what they want. But one should not confuse a convenient symbol with the thing itself. Pumpkin spice lattes are easy to hate and conspicuous, but putting them on a flag doesn't really say or do anything new.
I would like to see equality, and I would like to see the gap between privilege and its lack shrunk and better distributed. But I am wary of levelers who suggest that this should be addressed by eliminating the things privilege buys, or by arbitrarily imposing sumptuary laws.
I'm somewhat reminded of the liberal dilemma of long ago (and probably the present too, though I saw it long ago), with regard to racial equality. I heard many people who ought to know better arguing that everyone should have equal opportunity to prosper, and then criticizing minority people who, having done so, abandoned their roots. It's so easy for someone in the white suburbs to advocate getting out of the ghetto until someone actually does.
Is there anything actually about pumpkin spice latte that requires it to be culturally biased or white, or is it just a cultural phenomenon? Is there some reason other than simple economics that prevents anyone anywhere from having one if they want one?
So yes, pumpkin spice latte and decorative gourds are external signs of a privileged culture which, incidentally is also racially biased, and along with that racially biased culture come some visible cultural divides, in what people get, what they seek, and what they want. But one should not confuse a convenient symbol with the thing itself. Pumpkin spice lattes are easy to hate and conspicuous, but putting them on a flag doesn't really say or do anything new.
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
I've been pretty much at a loss for words.
I will, however, mention that certain varieties of white pumpkins are preferred for hurling as they are denser and stronger. Pumpkin Pie is a bad thing in competition.
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 18,941
My entrée dish for the Xmas menu is a pumpkin SEED pesto on sweet potato slices. Must I reconsider? Go for sunflower seeds and regular potatos instead, or would that add insult to the racial injury I'll no doubt cause?
Or am I exempt on account of my not being in the USA at all? I am, right? Phew! Thanks for saving Christmas!
Or am I exempt on account of my not being in the USA at all? I am, right? Phew! Thanks for saving Christmas!
rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
A mixture of Nutmeg, Allspice, cinnamon, and other things that cause pumpkin to have any flavo(u)r at all
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
In this day of partisan/identity politics, yes it is. The author could have easily settled her case by leaving out the word "racist" and simply stated that the song was first performed in Boston.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
Are you suggesting that minstrel shows weren't racist? Or are you denying that Jingle Bells started in one? Or are you just mad that someone brought it up?
No. I'm saying the author could have settled her research without virtue signalling the word racist and I'm saying the author of the pumpkin piece may end up whining about how she's being harassed on social media like the author of the Jingle Bells piece is.
Using the word racist in that context is not virtue signalling. It's simply being accurate and descriptive.
We know minstrel shows are racist, we know blackface is racist, we get hit over the head with what we cannot wear every year at Halloween so unless the author was writing for people who live under rocks, then using the word racist is either superfluous or virtue signalling.
It's perfectly normal for writers to refer to details of a subject that are generally knowledge. It's not abnormal for a journalist or scholar to refer to North Korea as a totalitarian regime, for example, even though that's common knowledge. It's also been my experience that more than a few people do "live under rocks" when it comes to some details that are otherwise widely known and it's not always safe to make assumptions about what they do and don't know.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
Sounds like someone hit a nerve.
Mumbles
Philosopher
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 8,726
The actual problem is, it's accurate according to her research regardless of whether or not she was "virtue signaling", which is one of many problems with that asinine phrase.
I'm at a disadvantage since I never had one - I don't even know if they're on the menu at Starbucks in my country - but no matter how they look, smell or taste, I think that it probably takes some effort to actually hate (and not merely dislike) pumpkin spice lattes!
My kid just learned it on the trumpet and has been practicing it for a week in preparation for last night's Christmas concert.