Man to sue after rape trial collapse

Minoosh said:
Actually I think ponderingturtle makes a valid point. It's possible there were times when she didn't consent. But I agree it makes prosecution pointless.

If I understand the facts of this case - a big if - I wonder what she thought was going to happen. Presumably she knew she was giving police records that seriously undermined her allegations.
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Maybe it did and maybe it didn't. The problem is that only facet being reported is she had a stated desire to have sex with him. Yet a lot of rape occurs with in the context of previously consensual sexual relationships. Clearly being raped by a partner is something that one shouldn't bother reporting to the police in the UK.
 
smartcooky said:
I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for any woman who says yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no, and then cries rape.

I am very loathe to use the expression "she was asking for it", but in this very rare case, I think its applicable. I mean, what the hell did she think was going happen when she pleaded for sex from this guy in 40,000 messages?
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Yep just like so called marital rape or women who wear dress like sluts. They are all asking for it and then cry rape when they get it.
 
Wayward son said:
If someone says no, then it doesn't matter if they had said yes a million times in a row before. It is still rape.



I don't think that it is applicable in this case, and I feel that you don't understand what happened in this case - which you seem to think was a situation in which someone repeatedly said yes, and then once said no, and therefore, for some bizarre reason, she deserves what happened to her. That is not at all what happened in this case. And in making the claim that you do you are accusing the defendant of committing a crime that he did not commit, and claiming that the accuser is a victim when she is not.

The accuser claimed that she was raped by defendant 6 times. She claimed that she had sex with him, did not enjoy it and did not consent.
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So if it was sex without consent, why isn't that rape? You don't have to be fighting back at the time for it to count as rape you know. Multiple rapes by a romantic partner are also not uncommon, clearly you don't believe they exist either.

Where are you getting these details please cite your sources.
 
zooterkin said:
Certainly true; consent can be withdrawn at any point. But if she was, as I believe was what happened, pestering for more sex after the time she later alleged was when the rape occurred, then I don't think she has a convincing case.
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Depends on if she realized it was rape. There are plenty of people who refuse to realize they were raped because they froze up and didn't yell no and so it supposedly is not consensual.

But apparently being interested only in actively involved sex partners is weird and most guys are fine with having "consensual" sex with a woman frozen in panic.

This might be a case of false reporting, and it might be an illustration on how stacked the deck is in favor of the rapists. We need more information to know if there was anything actually contradictory in the messages or it would make the defense able to portray her as a slut and so you can't trust her word.
 
It appears that a lot of the texts were post event, to her friends, and no mention was made of rape, but mention was made that she wanted more. That's what seems to have thrown the case.

Her post 'event' actions contradicted her testimony in court.

Appears she lied.
 
fagin said:
It appears that a lot of the texts were post event, to her friends, and no mention was made of rape, but mention was made that she wanted more. That's what seems to have thrown the case.

Her post 'event' actions contradicted her testimony in court.

Appears she lied.
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Ok show me the source that says that. The only linked articles here give no indication that any of the contradiction between her testimony to the police and the messages, merely that she was interested in sex in the messages and that was enough to get the prosecutors to drop the case.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Depends on if she realized it was rape. There are plenty of people who refuse to realize they were raped because they froze up and didn't yell no and so it supposedly is not consensual.

But apparently being interested only in actively involved sex partners is weird and most guys are fine with having "consensual" sex with a woman frozen in panic.
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I've seen nothing to support that being what happened in this instance.
This might be a case of false reporting, and it might be an illustration on how stacked the deck is in favor of the rapists. We need more information to know if there was anything actually contradictory in the messages or it would make the defense able to portray her as a slut and so you can't trust her word.
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You seem to be reading more into the available information than I would. All we know is that the content of the messages meant that in the judgement of the CPS there was no realistic chance of a conviction.

A spokesman for the CPS said: “A charge can only be brought if a prosecutor is satisfied that both stages of the full code test in the Code for Crown Prosecutors are met, that is, that there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction and that a prosecution is required in the public interest.

“All prosecutions are kept under continuous review and prosecutors are required to take account of any change in circumstances as the case develops.

“In November 2017, the police provided more material in the case of Liam Allan. Upon a review of that material, it was decided that there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction."
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zooterkin said:
I've seen nothing to support that being what happened in this instance.

You seem to be reading more into the available information than I would. All we know is that the content of the messages meant that in the judgement of the CPS there was no realistic chance of a conviction.
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Yes and that can mean too easy to portray her as a slut vs actually contradicting what she has told the police. Nothing in it also gives any indication that she did anything wrong. The only party we know acted inappropriately is the police. But yet lots of people here seem to think that she must have been making this all up.
 
Wayward son said:
The accuser claimed that she was raped by defendant 6 times. She claimed that she had sex with him, did not enjoy it and did not consent.
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I was not aware that sex these days comes with an SLA, and that bad sex is a criminal offence.

Wayward son said:
The reality is that the accuser had sex with defendant many times - and consented. At the end of the summer, the defendant went back to university and broke off the relationship. She retaliated by claiming to the police that she was raped. The police failed to perform due diligence and simply believed her despite knowingly being in possession of information from her phone that showed she was lying and that confirmed the claims of the defendant.
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Really? Shouldn't the fact that defendant claimed he broke off the relationship already be a red flag to the police that they should double-check the evidence they had?

Wayward son said:
False claims continue. They are not common but they have devastating consequences (the prosecutor has said that thankfully a grave injustice was avoided here - but that is not true - a grave injustice occurred for two years). These types of incidences also undermine real sexual assault claims, so those who are concerned about preventing sexual assault and punishing those who commit sexual assault should be the most adamant about ensuring this kind of injustice is prevented, but very few care at all.
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And that all is the more reason that people who make obviously false claims get prosecuted themselves. It should be clear that there's a price to be paid for a false claim. Not doing so is encouraging false claims and effectively saying that you can use the police and CPS as tools to enact revenge on someone.
 
Do you enjoy victim blaming? The guy is her victim as are the legitimate rape victims she is making things much more difficult for. She is looking mighty selfish at the moment.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Yes and that can mean too easy to portray her as a slut vs actually contradicting what she has told the police. Nothing in it also gives any indication that she did anything wrong. The only party we know acted inappropriately is the police. But yet lots of people here seem to think that she must have been making this all up.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...used-rape-says-will-sue-police-cps-questions/

"That evidence comprised a cache of sex texts sent from his alleged victim, including one, sent to a friend just weeks before Mr Allan was arrested, reportedly saying: “It wasn’t against my will or anything.” Others detailed her secret fantasies about being raped and choked during sex."

Lots of people here have been reading up on the case. Unlike you.
 
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Hungry81 said:
Do you enjoy victim blaming? The guy is her victim as are the legitimate rape victims she is making things much more difficult for. She is looking mighty selfish at the moment.
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Where is your evidence for that? The guy is the victim of the police sure but where is the evidence she did anything wrong, or is this just an assumed guilty until proven innocent when rape charges get dropped or the prosecution thinks the victim looks too slutty to be a believable victim for the jury to convict?
 
Nessie said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...used-rape-says-will-sue-police-cps-questions/

"That evidence comprised a cache of sex texts sent from his alleged victim, including one, sent to a friend just weeks before Mr Allan was arrested, reportedly saying: “It wasn’t against my will or anything.” Others detailed her secret fantasies about being raped and choked during sex."

Lots of people here have been reading up on the case. Unlike you.
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Got it you have to admit it was rape right away and go to the police, any delays mean it was retroactively consensual. We really owe some apologies to all those wrongfully persecuted celebrities out there.

I think we all need to sign a card for Harvey Weinstein.
 
Nessie said:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/17/student-wrongly-accused-rape-cleared-single-text-message-7166923/

"Bungling cops withheld texts from an alleged rape victim that kept an innocent man in ‘terrible limbo’ for two years.
The messages revealed she had told a friend the sex with Liam Allan ‘wasn’t against her will’.
Another message showed the alleged victim tried to have more sex with Mr Allan after the attack was said to have happened in September, 2015."
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And so consensual sex after spousal rape now makes it not rape no matter the consent at the time.
 
I think this is a likely a good summation by the accused Liam Allen as to what happened;

"Mr Allan said he believed the case started when the complainant, who cannot be named for legal reasons, began telling ‘a little white lie’. He said: ‘It completely spiralled out of control and it became a story she had to stick to. She completely lost control of what happened."
 
Nessie said:
No.
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Why can't you propose a system that makes it clear when non consensual sex is rape or not?

These things make it hard to determine the truth sure, but are also fairly common in the most common forms of rape, that between partners and people in the same social circle. This does show why going to the police is often not in the victims best interest. If she had lied to fiends about the consensual nature of the sex then that undermines her case and makes her a villain no matter who raped who.

Here is a secret, most rapes are the kind that can never be prosecuted so if there is very little odds of anything other than humiliation why should we encourage the victims to go through that?
 
Nessie said:
I think this is a likely a good summation by the accused Liam Allen as to what happened;

"Mr Allan said he believed the case started when the complainant, who cannot be named for legal reasons, began telling ‘a little white lie’. He said: ‘It completely spiralled out of control and it became a story she had to stick to. She completely lost control of what happened."
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That fits the presented information, but it also fits well into what happens when someone rapes a partner.
 
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