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Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

John Jones said:
What talent will you bring to that collaboration? Fetching coffee? Amusement?
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KotA is going to sit at home and stare at Google Earth and whenever he finds something he thinks is something ancient, he's going to immediately demand that his collaborators perform digs, take samples, perform tests, etc. He'll just sign off on their work and provide screenshots from Google Earth.

So the collaboration will involved KotA at home doing his pretend Google Earth research while other people go out and do the actual science and research.

You have to admit it's hilarious of him thinking something will actually happen by looking for collaborators, people to do carbon dating, dendrochronology, etc. by making casual requests to no-one in particular on some obscure web forum.

Why is he here looking for collaborators instead of at the archeological department of his local university?

Is it perhaps because he's not remotely serious about any of this and it's all just a game to him? Or he's trying to look impressive in front of the other forum members by trying to make himself look like he's some sort of actual researcher?
 
Aheem.

These grid-gardens extend the world over. Their ages differ, but ALL have been found to have Pre-Columbian origins.

The more remote locations I have found may have even earlier dates.

*I can write, research, and discover. :)
 
JesseCuster said:
KotA is going to sit at home and stare at Google Earth and whenever he finds something he thinks is something ancient, he's going to immediately demand that his collaborators perform digs, take samples, perform tests, etc. He'll just sign off on their work and provide screenshots from Google Earth.

So the collaboration will involved KotA at home doing his pretend Google Earth research while other people go out and do the actual science and research.

You have to admit it's hilarious of him thinking something will actually happen by looking for collaborators, people to do carbon dating, dendrochronology, etc. by making casual requests to no-one in particular on some obscure web forum.

Why is he here looking for collaborators instead of at the archeological department of his local university?

Is it perhaps because he's not remotely serious about any of this and it's all just a game to him? Or he's trying to look impressive in front of the other forum members by trying to make himself look like he's some sort of actual researcher?
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The latter, I think, but in the best tradition of science, I will adjust my hypothesis in the face of compelling evidence.
 
King of the Americas said:
Aheem.

These grid-gardens extend the world over. Their ages differ, but ALL have been found to have Pre-Columbian origins.
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Did I miss where you dated grid-gardens extended the world over or was that published somewhere other than this thread?

Where is this research of yours showing your data collection and methodology showing how you dated this myriad of grid gardens all over the world?

Spoiler: It's nowhere.
 
Since, I claimed this was a really old advanced agriculture, that may have preceded the flood, I really should include submerged versions of these abandoned garden-grids:

*On the last one I tried to isolate the features by turning the image into black and white version.
 

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King of the Americas said:
Aheem.

These grid-gardens extend the world over. Their ages differ, but ALL have been found to have Pre-Columbian origins.
The more remote locations I have found may have even earlier dates.

*I can write, research, and discover. :)
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Pre 1492. Big freaking deal. Did you have some other, less obvious point?
 
He can 'write, research and discover'. I bet he can arithmetic too!


Ain't that some amazing stuff, right there?
 
67 items of ignorant assertions, fantasies and lies from 9 November 2017 to 23 November 2017
  1. 24 November 2017: Denies the reality that trees die!
  2. 24 November 2017: The idiocy of an image from a document on the post-1963 tree planting.
  3. 24 November 2017: A lie about the image which is captioned "Aerial views of the forest planted by the Corporación de Fomento on the Refresco property. Tamarugal Pampa".
  4. 24 November 2017: Supports his ignorant fantasy with ruins of what look like recent adobe farm buildings in some random photos!
  5. 24 November 2017: Supports his ignorant fantasy with a misunderstand graph from a document on the post 1963 tree planting!
  6. 24 November 2017: KOTA has posted "countless" ignorant fantasies about documented recent plantings that do not "pre-date colonization"
  7. 24 November 2017: A delusion of "oldest rainforests were artificially planted" when he finds a clearing in a rainforest.
  8. 24 November 2017: Irrelevant question and images derailing from a "post 1963 tree planting were planted pre-Columbian" delusion.
  9. 24 November 2017: Emphasizes how idiotic his use of text and images from the prosopis tamarugo: fodder tree for arid zones document is!
  10. 24 November 2017: The repeated ignorance of an unsourced photograph presumably from a post 1963 tree planting document.
  11. 24 November 2017: The delusion that what he sees in Google Earth matches an old photograph taken on the ground.
  12. 24 November 2017: Lying about the photograph by not giving a source or including the caption.
  13. 24 November 2017: A "NO ONE has found or produced a SINGLE shred of evidence" lie.
  14. 24 November 2017: Emphasizes how idiotic his use of current Google Earth images is (no current triangular plots = replanting)!
  15. 24 November 2017: A fantasy and a lie about evidence of Chilean government funding.
  16. 24 November 2017: Irrelevant delusion about a lost city in the African rain forest.
 
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An ignorant rant about the authors of a report on post 1963 tree planting

King of the Americas said:
Authors...
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27 November 2017: An ignorant rant about the authors of a report on post 1963 tree planting which is what makes a delusion of pre-Columbian planting and a lie of no funding.
24 November 2017: A fantasy and a lie about evidence of Chilean government funding
CORFO is a Chilean governmental organization as you already know.
One of its programs was "National Programme for Livestock Development".
Mario A. Habit was employed by the Chilean government:
In 1963, as Executive Director of the National Programme for Livestock Development in Chile, he began research on combined forestry and grazing systems with tamarugo in the most northern part of the country.
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A total delusion of " historic shipping routes revealed on google earth"

King of the Americas said:
Method: Using historic shipping routes revealed on google earth,...
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27 November 2017: A total delusion of " historic shipping routes revealed on google earth".
Google Earth has undersea ridges and mapping artefacts that are on the sea floor. It is insane to think that there are roads or that they mark shipping routes (ships dumping enough rock to form mountains :eek:!)
 
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King of the Americas said:
This guy has written books on the Chilean and other South American economies, and had never heard of it.
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Give us their contact details. And what information did you give them?
It would not be surprising that a random "guy" would not know about a small, cheap project that is maybe 10,000th of the spending of a government.

What would less surprising is that you are lying given 83 items of ignorant assertions, fantasies and lies from 9 November 2017 to 24 November 2017

More charitably - it is half lie. They did not know about the project. A few minutes of research using Google would have found the same information that we know. Thus they know about the project now.
 
Roboramma said:
The date of 17,000 BCE is earlier than I'd heard of previously but is in line with the possibility that the builders of GT were a stone age agricultural society.
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Strictly speaking Göbekli Tepe has no evidence of any "society" because there is no evidence of people living there, e.g. buildings with fireplaces or other residential use. It was probably a ceremonial site only. There is evidence of hunting (lots of animal bones). There is no evidence of anything agricultural such as domesticated grains or tools for cultivation. The closest we get to even cooking are pits that could have been used for beer making from wild grains or boiling those wild grains.

There is a possibility that it was other sites in the region that were stone age agricultural villages, IMO especially for the second phase of GT building. But the quote and Wikipedia article imply this is agricultural in the sense of processing grain, not necessarily cultivating grain.
 
An ignorant fantasy that random fields in Texas are evidence of his delusion

King of the Americas said:
However, I did claim they were everywhere...so I searched my home county in Texas.
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27 November 2017: An ignorant fantasy that random fields in Texas are evidence of his "global agricultural society" delusion.
Texas has agriculture and fields!
 
A lie that his delusions are supported by a paper on pre-Columbian agriculture

King of the Americas said:
Proof I was right: ...
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27 November 2017: A lie that his delusions are supported by a paper on pre-Columbian agriculture.
We know that pre-Columbian people in Amazonia (and throughout the Americas to different extents) were agricultural :jaw-dropp!
This 2010 paper is about the extent of pre-Columbian agriculture in French Guiana. As for As I can recall you have not made up any delusions about French Guiana yet. Your delusion has been about trees - not "small round mounds".
 
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A "grid-gardens" lie and delusion

King of the Americas said:
These grid-gardens extend the world over.
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25 November 2017: A "grid-gardens" lie and delusion.
No "grid-gardens" in the paper. There are raised fields used in waterlogged regions: "As in locations with other types of raised fields, sites with only small, round raised fields are regularly organized, often in a square-grid arrangement".
A delusion that French Guiana (the subject of the paper) is the entire world throughout history.
 
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