Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend - Part 2

[MikeG]

Prosecutors are at the Supreme Court arguing for an extension of Pistorius' sentence. They are seeking 15 years in place of the 6 he was given. BBC

 

[Scordatura]

Prosecutors are at the Supreme Court arguing for an extension of Pistorius' sentence. They are seeking 15 years in place of the 6 he was given. BBC

Rats! I forgot that the application for leave to appeal began today. Here's a summary, more at the link:

JUDGES:

Ronnie Bosielo, Willie Seriti, Pieter Meyer, Colin Lamont, Fikile Mokgohloa

LAWYERS:

Andrea Johnson for prosecution

Barry Roux for defense
...
10:24am – Johnson: “I refer this court to its judgement – as a matter of common sense at the time the fatal shots were fired the possibility the person behind the door would be killed was clearly an obvious result.”
...
10:28am – Johnson says dolus eventualis is serious and the mitigating factors delivered by the defense were not sufficient – there were no substantial compelling factors why Oscar received a less than 15 years sentence

10:35am – Johnson says Judge Masipa elevated Pistorius’ regret
...
Johnson speaks the whopping obvious – the first step to proper rehab is acknowledging what you have done. Oscar has never acknowledged what he’s done… he’s made excuses, sobbed for himself, changed his stories, changed his defenses.
...
Tea Break
...
Roux starts now with the “slow burn” argument that he used at the last appeal proceedings. Disabled Oscar has had fears brewing his whole life. He argues, Oscar has an anxiety disorder.
...
Johnson back up and reads from Masipa’s judgement. Even Masipa noted she felt unease over the witness after witness giving testimony about Oscar’s vulnerability – in other words, it was over-emphasized.

https://shakedowntitle.com/2017/11/...of-oscar-pistorius-live-blog-november-3-2017/

In handing down sentence, Judge Masipa said that there were “substantial and compelling reasons” to deviate from the 15-year minimum sentence for murder, citing as one factor the continuing misperception that Pistorius had intended to kill his girlfriend.

She listed mitigating factors as:

-Pistorius was vulnerable on his stumps without his protheses.
-He believed the person in the bathroom was an intruder.
-He “immediately took steps to try to save the deceased’s life”.
-The judge believed he was genuinely remorseful.

She said the aggravating factors were:

-Pistorius used a lethal weapon, with high-grade ammunition.
-He fired four times, “knowing full well” there was someone in the bathroom.
-He did not take the precaution of firing a warning shot.

https://www.rnews.co.za/article/171...s-judgement-in-npas-pistorius-sentence-appeal

The judges have reserved their decision for a future date. No date given.

 

[Samson]

This is all nonsense of the highest order. In a failed state paranoia and fear are the oxygen fueling behaviour. Attack the cause not the symptoms. Pistorious should be released immediately.

 

[MikeG]

Failed states fail when they allow murderers to go free. If he fired those shots through the door then he is a murderer. I don't know why this is so difficult for you, but at least you can't blame Theresa May for it this time.

 

[Samson]

Interesting point about Theresa May. I think of this epoch as the day of the woman. May, Merkel, Clinton, Ardern, Ghandi, and Masipa. The gentle touch. Helen Winkelmann is a name to watch in dispensing Southern hemisphere justice.

 

[trustbutverify]

This is all nonsense of the highest order. In a failed state paranoia and fear are the oxygen fueling behaviour. Attack the cause not the symptoms. Pistorious should be released immediately.

No, I don't believe men who slaughter their significant others should be "released immediately" because the live in failed states. Plenty of men, handicapped and otherwise, manage to avoid murdering their girlfriends while living in violent societies.

 

[lionking]

This is all nonsense of the highest order. In a failed state paranoia and fear are the oxygen fueling behaviour. Attack the cause not the symptoms. Pistorious should be released immediately.

Won't happen. I'm betting on a decent sentence now that this is in the hands of decent judges.

 

[Scordatura]

This is all nonsense of the highest order. In a failed state paranoia and fear are the oxygen fueling behaviour. Attack the cause not the symptoms. Pistorious should be released immediately.

It's not nonsense; both appeals are based in South African law, not emotions. Whatever her personal reasons were, judge Masipa started the whole appeal process herself when she misinterpreted the law and on September 12, 2014 found Oscar guilty of culpable homicide instead of murder. Had she correctly understood the law she would have found him guilty under dolus eventualis.

In December of 2015 the SCA upheld the first appeal after agreeing that Masipa made an error in law, not fact.

Legal intention in the form of dolus eventualis ─ trial court incorrectly applying the principles thereof ─ constitutes an error of law.

Inference of fact to be drawn from the totality of the evidence ─ trial court not taking all the relevant evidence into account in determining the presence or otherwise of dolus eventualis ─ this also constitutes an error of law.

On a proper conspectus of all the evidence, the trial court ought to have found that the accused had been guilty of murder and not culpable homicide, and that his defence of putative private defence could not be sustained. Conviction of culpable homicide and the sentence imposed for that offence set aside under s 322 of CPA and the matter remitted to the trial court to impose sentence afresh.

https://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/1801/db3888fd1bc24611805612316c9e413b.pdf

On July 6, 2016 Masipa then sentenced Oscar to 6 years for his murder conviction instead of the minimum sentence of 15 years, arguing that he had already served 12 months and was remorseful.

Remorseful IMO because Masipa fell for Oscar's courtroom antics of vomiting and snot-dripping boo-hooing, along with his loud, howling cries over Reeva's body and and begging God to help her.

Masipa also claimed that there was no evidence that Oscar's and Reeva's relationship was ever violent, despite Reeva's texts telling Oscar that she was sometimes afraid of him. Masipa also glossed over Oscar's violent actions in the past - shooting his gun through a car sunroof, "accidentally" firing a gun in a crowded restaurant and so on.

It's clear that Masipa, who said "Our courts are courts of law, not courts of public opinion" didn't include her own opinion when deciding Oscar's fate. I look forward to hearing judges who are not swayed by Oscar's fame and Olympic medals to decide his sentence.

 

[Matthew Best]

Sentence increased to the minimum term of 15 years, less time served.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-42107701

 

[MikeG]

Oh good.

 

[The Atheist]

Sentence increased to the minimum term of 15 years, less time served.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-42107701

Still seems light to me. He jealously and callously cut her life short by 60 years or more and will still have 40 years or so of his own left when he gets out.

Won't be quite as quick, though.

 

[Scordatura]

I wonder if he'll file an appeal to the Constitutional Court.

 

[Samson]

Still seems light to me. He jealously and callously cut her life short by 60 years or more and will still have 40 years or so of his own left when he gets out.

Won't be quite as quick, though.

Not so. But hang em highers win this round. I hope he appeals.

 

[Vixen]

Still seems light to me. He jealously and callously cut her life short by 60 years or more and will still have 40 years or so of his own left when he gets out.

Won't be quite as quick, though.

It's always the way. There is rarely adequate recompense for a callous murder.

 

[Vixen]

Not so. But hang em highers win this round. I hope he appeals.

There's an interesting article here by Cybershrink about the weird phenomenon of Oscar Pistorius' fanatical supporters:

If jumping to conclusions were an Olympic event, these guys would win gold. “I refuse to pass judgement,” says another, overlooking the fact that she is in fact passing judgement, by refusing to consider that Oscar might not be innocent.

Judge Masipa should be demoted, as she is clearly not up to her job.

 

[Vixen]

I wonder if he'll file an appeal to the Constitutional Court.

...on the grounds of...?

 

[lionking]

At last. Bravo.

 

[MikeG]

Not so. But hang em highers win this round. I hope he appeals.

No hang-'em-highers here. He was found guilty of murder. Did you miss that?

The minimum sentence for murder in South Africa is 15 years, and exceptions shouldn't be made for people because of their celebrity. Do you disagree with any of that?

Oh, and you may have missed it but that WAS the Court of Appeal, and he has appealed previously. You are obviously ignoring facts and resorting to emotion again, which is fine, but that is the reason why we have courts take charge of these sorts of things rather than some sort of popularity contest.

 

[Rolfe]

Still seems light to me. He jealously and callously cut her life short by 60 years or more and will still have 40 years or so of his own left when he gets out.

I think the sentence being the minimum set down for the crime is due to the court not sentencing on the basis that he intentionally killed Reeva in a blind fury, but rather on the basis that he deliberately shot someone he believed was an intruder who was hiding in his bathroom. I think this is just.

My own suspicion is that he did indeed kill Reeva intentionally in a blind fury, but that's only a belief, not something that can be determined beyond reasonable doubt. It's therefore correct in law and in justice that he should be sentenced without taking that into account.

Pretty decent outcome I think, and I agree that Masipa behaved very unprofessionally, which is a shame.

 

[Rolfe]

There's an interesting article here by Cybershrink about the weird phenomenon of Oscar Pistorius' fanatical supporters:

I like "They are not giving him the benefit of the doubt, they’re giving him the benefit of no doubt whatsoever."

I wonder if these people are also clinging blindly to the belief that Pistorius isn't guilty of murder if he didn't know it was Reeva in the room when he shot. But certainly it's been explained often enough that what he actually did is a prima facie case without any need for him to have known it was Reeva.

The relative leniency of the appeal court's sentence, as I said, appears to indicate that he was sentenced on the basis of what he indisputably did, without any assumption that he knew it was Reeva in there. I suspect these rather dim bulbs aren't getting that either, or they just don't want to get it.

He killed someone who wasn't offering an immediate threat to him, ergo he is guilty of murder under the law of South Africa. What is it about this that is so hard for people to understand?

ETA: This (linked from the first) is a good article!
http://www.health24.com/Columnists/Has-Oscar-lost-the-plot-20140411