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Proof of Immortality, VII

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sackett said:
Fellers, let's consider what Jabba's up against. He dare not abandon his position, his "claim," by admitting that his arguments are failures. If he ever stops repeating himself, a silence will fall in which the truth of our mortality stands before him, implacably and unavoidably. He's afraid.
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Oh well cry me a goddamn river. Some one pass me the hair shirt so I might properly genuflect myself.

We are not "picking" on Jabba.

Jabba's not some old man we've all tracked down and surrounded to taunt him about his mortality for the Lulz. He sought us out with the express purpose of "proving immortality using Baysian statistics" using his "Truly Effective Debate Method" because he has an admitted hangup up with science and logic and fully admits he wants to quote mine a bunch of skeptics for statements he can rewrite into a piece of self insert fan fiction that he can show off to a mythical audience of neutral parties that doesn't exist anywhere but in his head.

It's not like the rest of us aren't going to die as well. Everybody has to grapple with morality same as Jabba. His fear of death doesn't make him a special snowflake we have to handle with kid's gloves. Any eggshells being walked on are his own doing.

Is a fear of nonexistence irrational? Yes; but none of us is rational all the time.
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And you can take that "But everyone is irrational some of the time!" special pleading and take it on the longest walk you can stand off the shortest pier you can find.
 
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JoeBentley said:
Oh well cry me a goddamn river. Some one pass me the hair shirt so I might properly genuflect myself.

We are not "picking" on Jabba.
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I think Sacket was being sarcastic.

Jabba's not some old man we've all tracked down and surrounded to taunt him about his mortality for the Lulz. He sought us out with the express purpose of "proving immortality using Baysian statistics" using his "Truly Effective Debate Method" because he has an admitted hangup up with science and logic and fully admits he wants to quote mine a bunch of skeptics for statements he can rewrite into a piece of self insert fan fiction that he can show off to a mythical audience of neutral parties that doesn't exist anywhere but in his head.
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Excellent summary.
 
Hi! I once participated in this thread when I was a younger stronger man but for many months (years?) I've left it to those others who could better summon up the dedication and energy required. Just being curious I took a peek this morning. From a quick inspection it appears that months and years later Jabba is still:

1. discussing which would be "he" if he were exactly duplicated
2. unable to describe exactly what it is that is "reincarnated" in his model of immortality
3. making use of the Texas sharpshooter's logical fallacy
No doubt I've missed additional "golden oldie" arguments that lie further upthread.

My mom watched "soap operas" on TV. For me the most amazing aspect of these shows was that I could go away to college for months, return for Christmas, and the plot of the soap operas would be exactly at virtually same point as when I left. Nothing was ever resolved; instead the characters would engage in heartfelt, deep, heavy dialog each episode. Odd, but I have the same feeling about Jabba's script.

And Jabba: I recall that years ago (when I was an active participate) you were requesting other posters to assist you in researching your own arguments and prior posts due to what you described as increasing memory difficulties. You also explained that you felt that participating in this thread was often overwhelming to you due to your age related limited energy, thus justifying why you ignored most rebuttals and would typically choose only one "most favored opponent" to whom to engage in conversation. In looking over your recent posts I find myself relieved that despite all the intervening time both your memory difficulties and your energy limitations appear to have been reversed. Your posts often read like those of a much younger man. I too am past 60 and have experienced the same problems- perhaps there is hope for me too?
 
Giordano said:
Hi! I once participated in this thread when I was a younger stronger man but for many months (years?) I've left it to those others who could better summon up the dedication and energy required. Just being curious I took a peek this morning. From a quick inspection it appears that months and years later Jabba is still:

1. discussing which would be "he" if he were exactly duplicated
2. unable to describe exactly what it is that is "reincarnated" in his model of immortality
3. making use of the Texas sharpshooter's logical fallacy
No doubt I've missed additional "golden oldie" arguments that lie further upthread.

My mom watched "soap operas" on TV. For me the most amazing aspect of these shows was that I could go away to college for months, return for Christmas, and the plot of the soap operas would be exactly at virtually same point as when I left. Nothing was ever resolved; instead the characters would engage in heartfelt, deep, heavy dialog each episode. Odd, but I have the same feeling about Jabba's script.

And Jabba: I recall that years ago (when I was an active participate) you were requesting other posters to assist you in researching your own arguments and prior posts due to what you described as increasing memory difficulties. You also explained that you felt that participating in this thread was often overwhelming to you due to your age related limited energy, thus justifying why you ignored most rebuttals and would typically choose only one "most favored opponent" to whom to engage in conversation. In looking over your recent posts I find myself relieved that despite all the intervening time both your memory difficulties and your energy limitations appear to have been reversed. Your posts often read like those of a much younger man. I too am past 60 and have experienced the same problems- perhaps there is hope for me too?
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I'm sure you can back to the original version of this thread (was it brought back to life with the second?) and you wouldn't notice a difference. If you didn't look at the dates of the posts, you could be forgiven to think that that thread's posts are from today.
 
No, sackett wasn't being sarcastic. Somebody called this thread a special case. I agree: a clinical case.

Those eggshells are of Jabba's own laying. Yes, he came here to speak his mind, and keep speaking it, to drown out what I've called a silence, a dread (to him) silence of death.

Somebody thinks I'm calling on posters to go easy on Jabba. Dunno how somebody got that idea. I'm handwaving aside all his repeated Jabbaling, and telling him to face what we all face.

Let him stop trying to hide from the coming of our friend. Irrationality is worse than death.
 
Speaking of years of fallacy-filled monotony, I sense a Chapter Seven split coming.
 
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Jabba said:
Dave,
- S0, reproducing your self would not reproduce you.
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It would reproduce me. To reproduce something is to make a copy of it.

- IOW, your self is determined entirely by the cells of your brain, but you must require something more.
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It does not. My self, "me", is determined entirely by the cells of my brain. A copy of my brain would have different cells made of different matter. The self produced by that brain would only be "different" in the same way the second brain is "different" from my brain.

It really is as simple as a copy being separate from the original.
 
Jabba said:
Dave,
- S0, reproducing your self would not reproduce you.
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I'm sure you agree that that's an idiotic thing to say.

- IOW, your self is determined entirely by the cells of your brain, but you YOUR SOUL must require something more.
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And you're ok with being that dishonest? I substituted the words you meant to say.

When above you say, "I come out of the cells of my brain.", by "I" you mean your self -- but, you do not also mean you.
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I'm sure you agree that you are being dishonest in trying to obfuscate the meanings of words and hide your "soul" in them.

- And, each new self SOUL would be different in that regard.
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If you mean "soul", why don't you honestly say "soul"?
 
John Jones said:
Speaking of years of fallacy-filled monotony, I sense a Chapter Seven split coming.
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How cool is my clairvoyance?


OK, I admit I noticed the post count was reaching the approximate limit before admin actions become necessary.
 
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Jabba said:
Dave,
- S0, reproducing your self would not reproduce you.
- IOW, your self is determined entirely by the cells of your brain, but you must require something more. When above you say, "I come out of the cells of my brain.", by "I" you mean your self -- but, you do not also mean you.
- And, each new self would be different in that regard.
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Jabba -

You're typing utter gibberish. Go to a nice Buddhist message board and ask them how they think reincarnation works. Or, alternatively, just stop.
 
caveman1917 said:
A coin toss might be deterministic for all we know, but that doesn't mean that we don't talk about things like "fair coins" with probability 0.5 of landing either side.
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A coin toss is deterministic.
 
godless dave said:
It would reproduce me. To reproduce something is to make a copy of it.




It does not. My self, "me", is determined entirely by the cells of my brain. A copy of my brain would have different cells made of different matter. The self produced by that brain would only be "different" in the same way the second brain is "different" from my brain.

It really is as simple as a copy being separate from the original.
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Dave,
- Back in 3320 of the previous chapter, you said,
"I come out of the cells of my brain.
If you made an exact copy of my brain, an exact copy of me would come out of it.
I do agree that an exact copy of me wouldn't be me"

- I'm just trying to find the right words. While a perfect copy would reproduce you, it wouldn't be you...
 
Jabba said:
Dave,
- Back in 3320 of the previous chapter, you said,
"I come out of the cells of my brain.
If you made an exact copy of my brain, an exact copy of me would come out of it.
I do agree that an exact copy of me wouldn't be me"

- I'm just trying to find the right words. While a perfect copy would reproduce you, it wouldn't be you...
Click to expand...

What, exactly would the difference be? If the duplicate self identifies as Jabba, how is that different from you?
 
Jabba said:
Dave,
- Back in 3320 of the previous chapter, you said,
"I come out of the cells of my brain.
If you made an exact copy of my brain, an exact copy of me would come out of it.
I do agree that an exact copy of me wouldn't be me"

- I'm just trying to find the right words. While a perfect copy would reproduce you, it wouldn't be you...
Click to expand...

Of course not. When is a copy ever the original? When are two things ever the same thing?
 
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