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Gratitude, Compulsion, Idiocy or Nobility?

Hi Kumar,

this omniscient guy, what did he invent? What great inventions have flowed from other omniscient Jains?

Fil

Do google search for more. Morality, sprituality, humanity, health, non violence, truth, ratiónals...means all really good for beings to extreme are few of hís works.

You believe that none of these things existed before this Mahavira achieved omniscience? I don't believe it.

And I wasn't asking about nebulous concepts like the ones you listed, what can I hold in my hand that was invented by someone with "all knowledge?" There should be a long list of things that you should be able to quote that sets Jainism apart from every other aesthetic religion.
 
You believe that none of these things existed before this Mahavira achieved omniscience? I don't believe it.

And I wasn't asking about nebulous concepts like the ones you listed, what can I hold in my hand that was invented by someone with "all knowledge?" There should be a long list of things that you should be able to quote that sets Jainism apart from every other aesthetic religion.

Yes, he has not invented nuclear and other destructing tools. Knowing of past also come within omniscience. It only mean knowing all of past, present and future.
 
You believe that none of these things existed before this Mahavira achieved omniscience? I don't believe it.

And I wasn't asking about nebulous concepts like the ones you listed, what can I hold in my hand that was invented by someone with "all knowledge?" There should be a long list of things that you should be able to quote that sets Jainism apart from every other aesthetic religion.

He invented nothing.
He was not modern type scientist with non A&F and non omniscient, He was A&F in has tellings being omniscient.
 
Anď how do we know he was omniscient?

Because you say so?

Hans
Yes, one know his home. Rest cam be studied in historical and holy books on him. Many such material can be available on internet. Studies on pinned etc are irrelevant.
 
Yes, one know his home. Rest cam be studied in historical and holy books on him. Many such material can be available on internet. Studies on pinned etc are irrelevant.

This forum abounds in threads where respondents to claims of holy books are NEVER satisfied with the flim-flammery need to protect those supposed holy texts. The harder an OP tries to maintain the unquestionable attributes of those holy texts the more garbled and quixotic those posts become. In short, a waste of everyone's time. One can find reasonably historical texts on Johnny Appleseed, a one-time real person, but those texts never can be once and for all be the final word on that person or his actions. And any figure from a supposedly religious background and wrapped in legend cannot even measure up to that standard. Revere anyone you wish; don't expect us to follow. Don't expect us to even care other than pointing out your logical fallacies and misinterpretation of incomplete data.
 
Yes, one know his home.

I know Joseph Smith's home too. In fact, I've been there.

Rest cam be studied in historical and holy books on him. Many such material can be available on internet.

Many books have been written about Joseph Smith too, and he even wrote one himself. He didn't have to rely on centuries of oral traditions among illiterate followers. Joseph Smith also claimed to be effectively omniscient -- he claimed to talk to the Christian god and among his followers his word was taken as absolute and final.

Today I live a short walk from a tall office building where the proteges of Joseph Smith make similar claims. Fifteen men who work there are considered "absolute and final" in their pronouncements. They claim to be omniscient. They claim to speak for God. Moreover, they command the obedience of many more followers than Jainism. Are they also correct? They are making substantially the same claims as you. And we can certainly talk about Jesus, or the prophet Mohammed. If I reject the claims by and about them as unfounded, why should anyone accept your similar claims?

You need to realize that every religion makes the same claims yours does when it comes to a holy and infallible origin, just with different details. They have realized that few people care about the difference between claims of omniscience and evidence of it. They have realized that as long as they stay within the Tokienesque realms of their own invented universes, they can say whatever they want -- none of which can be objectively or empirically verified -- and convinced hordes of people that they are some sort of chosen vessel of wisdom. When it comes to doing actually useful things that require effort or attention outside the narrow circle of their faith, they fall comically short.

I want to know what Jainism has that's different, that makes its claims any more credible than the others'. Turns out, nothing. You don't know the difference between fact and attribution, between claim and evidence. And not to mention you're one of the most off-putting people I've ever seen. Most westerners generally have a high opinion of eastern religions, but I think you're the exception. We stereotypically expect eastern religious people to be kind, meek, wise, selfless, and possessed of a zen of religion. You're exactly the opposite. You're willfully ignorant, self-centered, obnoxious, and extremely petty. This prevents intelligent people from wanting to talk to you. Whereas someone else might have made Jainism seem like a noble religion, you make it look like just one more shabby, small-minded cult, the kind of which we already have way too many. Think very carefully about how you're portraying your religion. You might not be its best ambassador.
 
Yes, one know his home. Rest cam be studied in historical and holy books on him. Many such material can be available on internet. Studies on pinned etc are irrelevant.

I shouldn't need to read books or search him out on the internet. If he had been omniscient his name would be on every lip, his works would be known and praised by everyone. We'd all be Jains.

Instead we have a man who is barely known and his living followers number a vanishingly small percentage of the world's population.
 
Yes, one know his home. Rest cam be studied in historical and holy books on him. Many such material can be available on internet. Studies on pinned etc are irrelevant.

What does the highlighted sentence mean?

Anyway,
I did not ask: How do we know he existed? ... Although even for that, such old accounts are not very reliable.

I asked: How do we know he was omniscient?

You know, what is the evidence that he was omniscient?

Hans
 
He invented nothing.


Well, what do you expect if the poor guy was omniscient? As well as the useful stuff, his mind will have been full of junk. He'll have known the script of every episode of Coronation Street, all the competitors in Strictly Come Dancing and when each of them was eliminated, and every Notts County result ever. The chances of him thinking of something useful must have been pretty remote.
 
Straight down the bookies then
But that is of course the opinion of someone who does not know everything. It is likely, instead, that an omnscient one would know what others only guess, which is that, vanity of vanities, all is vanity. Entropy is, after all, the most likely fate of the universe. To know everything is most likely indistinguishable from knowing nothing, except for being infinitely more depressing.
 
I know Joseph Smith's home too. In fact, I've been there.



Many books have been written about Joseph Smith too, and he even wrote one himself. He didn't have to rely on centuries of oral traditions among illiterate followers. Joseph Smith also claimed to be effectively omniscient -- he claimed to talk to the Christian god and among his followers his word was taken as absolute and final.

Today I live a short walk from a tall office building where the proteges of Joseph Smith make similar claims. Fifteen men who work there are considered "absolute and final" in their pronouncements. They claim to be omniscient. They claim to speak for God. Moreover, they command the obedience of many more followers than Jainism. Are they also correct? They are making substantially the same claims as you. And we can certainly talk about Jesus, or the prophet Mohammed. If I reject the claims by and about them as unfounded, why should anyone accept your similar claims?

You need to realize that every religion makes the same claims yours does when it comes to a holy and infallible origin, just with different details. They have realized that few people care about the difference between claims of omniscience and evidence of it. They have realized that as long as they stay within the Tokienesque realms of their own invented universes, they can say whatever they want -- none of which can be objectively or empirically verified -- and convinced hordes of people that they are some sort of chosen vessel of wisdom. When it comes to doing actually useful things that require effort or attention outside the narrow circle of their faith, they fall comically short.

I want to know what Jainism has that's different, that makes its claims any more credible than the others'. Turns out, nothing. You don't know the difference between fact and attribution, between claim and evidence. And not to mention you're one of the most off-putting people I've ever seen. Most westerners generally have a high opinion of eastern religions, but I think you're the exception. We stereotypically expect eastern religious people to be kind, meek, wise, selfless, and possessed of a zen of religion. You're exactly the opposite. You're willfully ignorant, self-centered, obnoxious, and extremely petty. This prevents intelligent people from wanting to talk to you. Whereas someone else might have made Jainism seem like a noble religion, you make it look like just one more shabby, small-minded cult, the kind of which we already have way too many. Think very carefully about how you're portraying your religion. You might not be its best ambassador.

You did not awnser my two questions but other awnsered rightly by whích I proved Jainísm has scientifíc affects so scientific. All religións similarily. Since religions like science most things do not have side affects, strict scientific standards do not apply to religions. A&F should also apply to benefits with out undue side affects. We have see real religion in any religion not how few people misuse it in self odds.
 
You did not awnser my two questions but other awnsered rightly by whích I proved Jainísm has scientifíc affects so scientific. All religións similarily. Since religions like science most things do not have side affects, strict scientific standards do not apply to religions. A&F should also apply to benefits with out undue side affects. We have see real religion in any religion not how few people misuse it in self odds.
You were too busy huffing and puffing to realize I had answered your questions despite your unwillingness to retract your heinous accusation. No, I didn't answer with the yes-or-no that loaded questions generally require. In explaining how they were loaded, I pointed out how they had nothing to do with the scientific validity of Jainism. I doubt you'll find any here who answered your questions more directly who will agree you have proved a scientific basis for your religion, or for any religion. Scientific standards apply to any putative claim of fact, especially ones that explicitly insist they are scientific. You want to be able to claim scientific rigor while denying you have to meet the standards. That's just rude.
 
You did not awnser my two questions but other awnsered rightly by whích I proved Jainísm has scientifíc affects so scientific. All religións similarily. Since religions like science most things do not have side affects, strict scientific standards do not apply to religions. A&F should also apply to benefits with out undue side affects. We have see real religion in any religion not how few people misuse it in self odds.

Religion is scientific yet scientific standards do not apply to religion. And by that token liquid water is not wet. And again with the quixotically odd use of "odd." The best use of your posts, Kumar, is that, similar to Whack-a-Mole™, one can pass idle time with Whack-a-Fallacy.
 
What does the highlighted sentence mean?

Anyway,
I did not ask: How do we know he existed? ... Although even for that, such old accounts are not very reliable.

I asked: How do we know he was omniscient?

You know, what is the evidence that he was omniscient?

Hans

As I told, it is well recorded in history of jainism. Well recorded history and well followed things need no proof unless science can provide Time Machine. You all need to be Practical people alike children are for parents without DNA cerification esp on those things wich are beneficial withóut undue side affects. Exploring without sense and practical use can just be a waste.
 
You were too busy huffing and puffing to realize I had answered your questions despite your unwillingness to retract your heinous accusation. No, I didn't answer with the yes-or-no that loaded questions generally require. In explaining how they were loaded, I pointed out how they had nothing to do with the scientific validity of Jainism. I doubt you'll find any here who answered your questions more directly who will agree you have proved a scientific basis for your religion, or for any religion. Scientific standards apply to any putative claim of fact, especially ones that explicitly insist they are scientific. You want to be able to claim scientific rigor while denying you have to meet the standards. That's just rude.
Presence of well understood science need no proofs. One who do not endórse it, can be due to his odd not due to others odds. Yes reply to those two questions is A&F, anyone still do not agree on it, will be odd.
 

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