Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

[Darat]

This doesn’t make any sense. Let’s say there are worse videos out there of Tweeden, maybe grabbing men by the meat and two veg while they were waiting for a bus or in any other situation where they wouldn’t expect it. How would it exonerate Franken?

He didn't grope her, the kiss was consensual so I don't think it matters at all. I think at the moment there is an attempt to widen what is under discussion yet still imply it is all the same issue.

In a hypothetical world in which he kissed her without prior consent and actually groped her breasts if she was someone who did the same type of thing to men I would say he could have come to a reasonable conclusion that she was fine with such acts.

 

[bluesjnr]

This doesn’t make any sense. Let’s say there are worse videos out there of Tweeden, maybe grabbing men by the meat and two veg while they were waiting for a bus or in any other situation where they wouldn’t expect it. How would it exonerate Franken?

I'm not discussing the exoneration of Franken. If it is found that he has committed assault upon Tweeden and others then he should face whatever legal or political measures that can be brought to bear upon him.

What I'm trying to do is to put his actions and the subsequent effects it has allegedly had on one of his accusers into perspective. I think her behaviour should be taken into account.

I have seen video evidence of her assaulting two men, one of whom went on to commit suicide. Did her assault of that man play any part in it? Maybe he felt embarrassed belittled, humiliated. Maybe he thought, "how dare anyone mount me like this and think it's funny?" Maybe like other men in similar situations at the mercy of vexatious women and the media, Williams decided to keep quiet out of fear of what pointing fingers and getting all squiffy about being mounted without consent might have done to his career as a comedian.

Personally, I very much doubt it had anything at all to do with his suicide but I was always aware that Williams was fragile mentally so we'll never know for sure if it did.

Are there any more men in Tweedens past that have gone on to commit suicide? Maybe we should be looking there and asking questions.

Maybe she accepted that apology a bit too readily, worried that her past behaviour wouldn't stand scrutiny?

Again, I'm not serious but I'm simply trying to illustrate how things can be spun the other way and how we should take both parties behaviour in to consideration.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I'm not discussing the exoneration of Franken. If it is found that he has committed assault upon Tweeden and others then he should face whatever legal or political measures that can be brought to bear upon him.

What I'm trying to do is to put his actions and the subsequent effects it has allegedly had on one of his accusers into perspective. I think her behaviour should be taken into account.

I have seen video evidence of her assaulting two men, one of whom went on to commit suicide. Did her assault of that man play any part in it? Maybe he felt embarrassed belittled, humiliated. Maybe he thought, "how dare anyone mount me like this and think it's funny?" Maybe like other men in similar situations at the mercy of vexatious women and the media, Williams decided to keep quiet out of fear of what pointing fingers and getting all squiffy about being mounted without consent might have done to his career as a comedian.

Personally, I very much doubt it had anything at all to do with his suicide but I was always aware that Williams was fragile mentally so we'll never know for sure if it did.

Are there any more men in Tweedens past that have gone on to commit suicide? Maybe we should be looking there and asking questions.

Maybe she accepted that apology a bit too readily, worried that her past behaviour wouldn't stand scrutiny?

Again, I'm not serious but I'm simply trying to illustrate how things can be spun the other way and how we should take both parties behaviour in to consideration.

You say her actions should be taken into account. Then you said she did some bad things. But you never connect and get back to how that affects perspective of franken's actions. What is that new perspective?

 

[WilliamSeger]

Speaking solely for myself, I've always thought that was an odd one anyway. If a woman gave me a free feel anywhere but only through the clothes I would certainly never pick the crotch. There's just not much feelable there. I would much rather go for the boobs first and the ass second.

[/sexistpig]

You're ignoring that with a malignant narcissist like Trump, it wasn't really about sexual gratification; it's all about ego gratification. I think he just took an extreme example to illustrate his belief that "if you're a star, they let you do it -- you can do anything." With that belief and his bloated but fragile ego, I'm quite sure he would do things like that just to reinforce his "star" self-image -- and not only by doing it, but (maybe more importantly to Trump) bragging about it to other males as a way of saying "you can't do that because you're not a star like me."

 

[varwoche]

Franken agrees by the way that the woman deserves to be believed.

It's politically correct to say that. Almost a political necessity.

But for critical thinkers concerned with getting at the truth, it's a load of nonsense. Nobody inherently deserves to be believed. They deserve to be believed only if they're believable.

 

[angrysoba]

I'm not discussing the exoneration of Franken. If it is found that he has committed assault upon Tweeden and others then he should face whatever legal or political measures that can be brought to bear upon him.

What I'm trying to do is to put his actions and the subsequent effects it has allegedly had on one of his accusers into perspective. I think her behaviour should be taken into account.

I have seen video evidence of her assaulting two men, one of whom went on to commit suicide. Did her assault of that man play any part in it? Maybe he felt embarrassed belittled, humiliated. Maybe he thought, "how dare anyone mount me like this and think it's funny?" Maybe like other men in similar situations at the mercy of vexatious women and the media, Williams decided to keep quiet out of fear of what pointing fingers and getting all squiffy about being mounted without consent might have done to his career as a comedian.

Personally, I very much doubt it had anything at all to do with his suicide but I was always aware that Williams was fragile mentally so we'll never know for sure if it did.

Are there any more men in Tweedens past that have gone on to commit suicide? Maybe we should be looking there and asking questions.

Maybe she accepted that apology a bit too readily, worried that her past behaviour wouldn't stand scrutiny?

Again, I'm not serious but I'm simply trying to illustrate how things can be spun the other way and how we should take both parties behaviour in to consideration.

Okay, let's say, for argument's sake, that her sexual assault on Robin Williams - which we have all seen now - led directly to his committing suicide, and that she also has a string of others that she did the same too - hence her CYA acceptance of Franken's apology. Then what?

 

[WilliamSeger]

So anyway, it doesn't matter if the allegations against Franken are true; we need his Trump-agenda resistance vote in the Senate, so he must not resign.

 

[The Big Dog]

I enjoy the close analysis of the groping photo: JFK and Moon landing hoax fans are like "hey! that is our schtick!"

Folks even Al Franken said that the picture is inappropriate and demeaning to the victim. So, if you are continuing to defend that picture, even a serial groper like Senator McHandsy is suggesting that you give it a rest.

Al Franken's Boob Grope is an Outside Job!

 

[angrysoba]

So anyway, it doesn't matter if the allegations against Franken are true; we need his Trump-agenda resistance vote in the Senate, so he must not resign.

If he resigns then another Democrat will be appointed. I don't think that Democrat will be a Trump supporter.

 

[Upchurch]

It's politically correct to say that. Almost a political necessity.

But for critical thinkers concerned with getting at the truth, it's a load of nonsense. Nobody inherently deserves to be believed. They deserve to be believed only if they're believable.

Perhaps it would be better put: "Women deserve to be heard, justly considered, and not immediately dismissed."

Or perhaps, more technically: "Do not allow a claim differing weight due to gender."

 

[BobTheCoward]

Perhaps it would be better put: "Women deserve to be heard, justly considered, and not immediately dismissed."

Or perhaps, more technically: "Do not allow a claim differing weight due to gender."

I propose an additional modifier.

If you think you have not been giving claims different weight due to gender, you are probably wrong about your recollection.

 

[bluesjnr]

You say her actions should be taken into account. Then you said she did some bad things. But you never connect and get back to how that affects perspective of franken's actions. What is that new perspective?

I think it’s fair to say that Tweeden is pretty much in charge of how we perceive Frankens actions as there is almost nothing to suggest he is guilty of such lewd and salacious behaviour. I’m not prepared to give any credence to the “ass grab” accusation (shoot me) so it’s safe to say that Frankens past behaviour seems to be benign and supportive of women.

So, we have that against Tweeden, a proven sexual assaulter.

 

[The Big Dog]

I think it’s fair to say that Tweeden is pretty much in charge of how we perceive Frankens actions as there is almost nothing to suggest he is guilty of such lewd and salacious behaviour. I’m not prepared to give any credence to the “ass grab” accusation (shoot me) so it’s safe to say that Frankens past behaviour seems to be benign and supportive of women.

So, we have that against Tweeden, a proven sexual assaulter.

well except Tweeden's statement, the photo, the fact that Al did not deny it, the fact that Al has gone into hiding, and the woman from Minnesota who Senator handsy also molested....

 

[BobTheCoward]

well except Tweeden's statement, the photo, the fact that Al did not deny it, the fact that Al has gone into hiding, and the woman from Minnesota who Senator handsy also molested....

Bluesjnr already dismissed one or two of those. You repeating them doesn't change that for bluesjnr.

 

[The Big Dog]

Bluesjnr already dismissed one or two of those. You repeating them doesn't change that for bluesjnr.

I believe that our correspondent is not serious, although there are plenty of people with the long knives out for a person who dares to question a liberal icon like Senator Handsy

 

[BobTheCoward]

I believe that our correspondent is not serious, although there are plenty of people with the long knives out for a person who dares to question a liberal icon like Senator Handsy

Taking a comment as not serious is a far easier solution than working with it I guess.

 

[acbytesla]

If he resigns then another Democrat will be appointed. I don't think that Democrat will be a Trump supporter.

The only problem with that in my mind besides that I think this is total nonsense at the moment is that I believe Al was just re-elected last year with 5 more years left on his Senate term. If he resigns, there will be a special election next November putting the seat in play.

 

[newyorkguy]

A year ago I would have more or less shrugged at the accusations against Franken. They are nowhere near as serious as those against Moore, and it irks me that the right is using it as a diversion. That said, the Democrats need to own this issue. There can be no tolerance for "boys will be boys". Defending Franken on these credible accusations cedes the moral high ground.

Franken may well be a good law maker and a fighter for Democratic causes. That's not enough today. This is more than a political thing. This is a brand new world were the momentum of women's voices is strong. Democrats need to be on the right side of history on this one. The GOP certainly won't be.

^ Well put. I agree.

What Franken did was in very bad taste and wrong but obviously not the same level of bad behavior as Louis CK much less Harvey Weinstein. Their actions were criminal. In fact, I read that a couple of the New York City police detectives who investigated one of the complaints against Weinstein -- and then recommended he be prosecuted -- were reportedly disheartened and furious when the Manhattan DA's office decided not to pursue criminal charges.

 

[LTC8K6]

The only problem with that in my mind besides that I think this is total nonsense at the moment is that I believe Al was just re-elected last year with 5 more years left on his Senate term. If he resigns, there will be a special election next November putting the seat in play.

Franken won in 2008 by around 300 votes.

Have to wonder what would have happened if Tweeden had spoken up earlier.

Franken probably loses in 2008...

 

[Belz...]

Okay, let's say, for argument's sake, that her sexual assault on Robin Williams - which we have all seen now - led directly to his committing suicide, and that she also has a string of others that she did the same too - hence her CYA acceptance of Franken's apology. Then what?

Well, we've got the misdirection down, so we're ready for the prestige.