Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

Since this thread has devolved into the Big Dog and friends being sarcastic about sexual abuse, why don't the rest of us leave them to it? There is plenty of sexual abuse to go around in the Roy Moore thread.

I am taking your advise of leaving Big Dog alone now - seeing that no one raised his hands when asked for a show of hands to support him. The Lone Dog.

But the Roy Moore thread is thaddaway --->
Let's not pull a whataboutit on this here thread.
 
Plenty of really funny jokes have themes of adultery, death or other crass, usually inacceptable behaviour. In fact, play on taboos is a major reason why such jokes are fun. Doesn't mean that people participating in such joke thereby agree to be made subjects of practical jokes.
Of course not. It was juvenile and obnoxious.
 
What part of 'acting don't you understand? Also, men sometimes misinterpret signals and sometimes they make make advances on women and cross the line. If Tweeden objects and Franken continues then yes, there is a problem. If he modifies his behavior then he did what he was supposed to have done.

I took drama and acted in plays in high school, college and some community theater. I have had actresses do that to me. I didnt have a hissy fit.

If a man's misinterpreted signals leads to them assaulting a person, then he belongs in prison.

Acting is pretending to commit assault....not actually assaulting a person.
 
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Now this is interesting.
She says Franken grabbed and held and felt her butt for 3-4 seconds during a photo op, with her husband snapping the pic.
She then told her husband, father, and mother-in-law; they all remember.
More importantly: Private Facebook entries exist, made days later in 2010: The woman posted the photo, her sister commented on how close she and Franken are, and she replied that he totally groped her, creepy.

This, coming from CNN, seems credible.

Of course the right-wingers here are free to call "fake news".
 
Now this is interesting.
She says Franken grabbed and held and felt her butt for 3-4 seconds during a photo op, with her husband snapping the pic.
She then told her husband, father, and mother-in-law; they all remember.
More importantly: Private Facebook entries exist, made days later in 2010: The woman posted the photo, her sister commented on how close she and Franken are, and she replied that he totally groped her, creepy.

This, coming from CNN, seems credible.

Of course the right-wingers here are free to call "fake news".

Yep. Instantly plausible. This might seem minor, but together with the previous allegation, this is enough in my view. Franken should resign.
 
Doesn't matter.

It's a 55 year old man pretending to grope the boobs of a sleeping woman to humiliate her via a photograph of the act.

It is sexual harassment of the high school variety.

It's NOT sexual harassment. It's juvenile. Sexual harassment is repeated ...demonstrably unwanted advances.
 
Yep. Instantly plausible. This might seem minor, but together with the previous allegation, this is enough in my view. Franken should resign.

I am never quite sure where to draw such lines.
This puts in severe doubt however his insistence that he respects women. I live in a much more sexually liberal country than the USA, and I can instantly think of half a dozen "transgressions" I have "committed" that might cost me re-election, office or job there, if they became public; and I naturally think that would be quite over the top, and not actually much of a problem for a political career here.

But

I have never, and will never, fondle a woman on the buttocks who I am not very very familiar with, and only in situations where the appropriateness is without question (she's my relevant other and we are in private, she is a new flame and we are mutually escalating a flirt, or we are friends with matching senses of humor obviously goofing around and there is a tit for tat). It must be instantly obvious to every man in the 21st century anywhere in the west that grabbing a stranger's butt for a mere photo op is wildly disrespectful, and proof positive that Franken does NOT respect women, at least not as much as I respect them.
 
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Woman says Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010

From the link:
Franken "pulled me in really close, like awkward close, and as my husband took the picture, he put his hand full-fledged on my rear," Menz said. "It was wrapped tightly around my butt cheek."

Where I come from, that's enough to get you punched in the face if the hubby or boyfriend realizes what's happening when it's happening. :(

As many observers have noted, what we're probably seeing here is the beginning of a societal change in what a man can and can't get away with, amending the social contract. Our president has said when you're a celebrity you can touch women anyway you want. "They let you do it." Senator Franken seems to have bought into that, at least occasionally. That may be changing.

But I've seen this kind of thing happen on every job I've ever had. There's always a couple guys who can't keep their hands off the women. There's a guy like this on my current job. He's a supervisor and there are several much younger women he always greets by hugging them and kissing them on the cheek. Judging by their expressions and body language they don't like it but it's difficult to deal with it, especially when it's someone in a superior position. If the woman does or says something that embarrasses the offender there are many ways they can quietly retaliate down the road.

All this reminds me of an incident on a previous job with a young QC tech I worked with, and a product development vice president. I was very friendly with both. The veep was about 70, the tech was 22. She was very cute. The veep used to come into our area, pull her to him, wrap his arms around her and hold her. Then he would coo, "How you doing honey, you okay? Tell Danny, they treating you right?" It was pretty gross.

The tech eventually complained to her boss, the QC director. He told Dan, "Come on she's 22-years-old. Keep your freaking hands off her." He said it with a smile but Dan got angry. He wanted to know, "Did she say something?" The QC director answered indirectly, "It makes her uncomfortable."

After that he left her alone and I don't recall him retaliating.
 
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Taking the photo is for one purpose only...to continually humiliate her.

The photo was most likely passed around for laughs.

Really, that's what you think? How exactly is that humiliating to her? It's a dumb joke. I thought she was a comedian? Laughing at yourself and the people around you is kind of a prerequisite for the job. Seriously, if that freaked her out, no way should she be in comedy.
 
From the link:


Where I come from, that's enough to get you punched in the face if the hubby or boyfriend realizes what's happening when it's happening. :(

As many observers have noted, what we're probably seeing here is the beginning of a societal change in what a man can and can't get away with, amending the social contract. Our president has said when you're a celebrity you can touch women anyway you want. "They let you do it." Senator Franken seems to have bought into that, at least occasionally. That may be changing.

But I've seen this kind of thing happen on every job I've ever had. There's always a couple guys who can't keep their hands off the women. There's a guy like this on my current job. He's a supervisor and there are several much younger women he always greets by hugging them and kissing them on the cheek. Judging by their expressions and body language they don't like it but it's difficult to deal with it, especially when it's someone in a superior position. If the woman does or says something that embarrasses the offender there are many ways they can quietly retaliate down the road.

All this reminds me of an incident on a previous job with a young QC tech I worked with, and a product development vice president. I was very friendly with both. The veep was about 70, the tech was 22. She was very cute. The veep used to come into our area, pull her to him, wrap his arms around her and hold her. Then he would coo, "How you doing honey, you okay? Tell Danny, they treating you right?" It was pretty gross.

The tech eventually complained to her boss, the QC director. He told Dan, "Come on she's 22-years-old. Keep your freaking hands off her." He said it with a smile but Dan got angry. He wanted to know, "Did she say something?" The QC director answered indirectly, "It makes her uncomfortable."

After that he left her alone and I don't recall him retaliating.

You know, I'm glad the country is having this discussion. But not every unwanted sexual advance constitutes sexual harassment.

I remember this young woman I was interested in who I worked with although I had no supervisory relationship at all. She was pretty and smart having recently graduated from Yale. But she also seemed shy. Now, I never touched her in any way. I might have been overly friendly, but instead of just telling me she was uninterested, she complained to HR and all of a sudden my job was on the line. From that moment on I made sure our conversations were 100 percent work related and as short as possible so I could never be accused again. You know what happened? She complained again to HR that I wasn't nice to her.
 
I am taking your advise of leaving Big Dog alone now - seeing that no one raised his hands when asked for a show of hands to support him. The Lone Dog.

But the Roy Moore thread is thaddaway --->
Let's not pull a whataboutit on this here thread.

Oh noes, but who will repeatedly accuse me of lying and continue to have the famous "nevertheless she persisted" line fly over their heads???
 
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Where I come from, that's enough to get you punched in the face if the hubby or boyfriend realizes what's happening when it's happening. :(
Yes, that's probably rather universal, and surely was the universal standard in 2010.

As many observers have noted, what we're probably seeing here is the beginning of a societal change in what a man can and can't get away with, amending the social contract. Our president has said when you're a celebrity you can touch women anyway you want. "They let you do it." Senator Franken seems to have bought into that, at least occasionally. That may be changing.
Agreed.

But I've seen this kind of thing happen on every job I've ever had. There's always a couple guys who can't keep their hands off the women. There's a guy like this on my current job. He's a supervisor and there are several much younger women he always greets by hugging them and kissing them on the cheek. Judging by their expressions and body language they don't like it but it's difficult to deal with it, especially when it's someone in a superior position. If the woman does or says something that embarrasses the offender there are many ways they can quietly retaliate down the road.
Greeting someone by "hugging them and kissing them on the cheek" is at least on a spectrum of acceptable social behaviours - it would depend on where you are and how the relationship and situation is. Where I am, friends hug, collegues don't, unless they are also friends. Kiss on the cheek is for good friends of the other sex. Some people have a cultural background where these rules vary - I have been unexpectedly cheek-kissed e.g. by a Polish woman I met in continuing education and by a Greek male good friend. Took some getting used to it, but all is good since the relationships were amiable and eye-to-eye.

But it's important in my opinion to negotiate (provide greeting method as an offer, and have it freely accepted or rejected) individual habits, and if you do not have the explicit and voluntary agreement, revert to base standards. Everything else is violation. Hugging and kissing certainly is not company standard in any company in the USA, UK or Germany.
 
And if she's not a comedian?

Probably not. The very nature of being a comedian leads to doing offensive things and sometimes taking a step back. I read an article the other day penned by Judy Gold titled. 'You think you know Louis CK? You don't.' She described the lives of stand up comics. How they traveled together and lived together often sharing apartments that clubs kept for visiting comics. She said it was naturally juvenile and edgy. She said she knew Louis well and she never knew about the accusations.
 
Probably not. The very nature of being a comedian leads to doing offensive things and sometimes taking a step back. I read an article the other day penned by Judy Gold titled. 'You think you know Louis CK? You don't.' She described the lives of stand up comics. How they traveled together and lived together often sharing apartments that clubs kept for visiting comics. She said it was naturally juvenile and edgy. She said she knew Louis well and she never knew about the accusations.

IIRC, she's a sports commentator and a model. Not a comedian. Not that I believe that has anything to do with anything.
 

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