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Proof of Immortality, VI

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Jabba said:
Sodhner,
- I'm not looking at whether or not a soul exists under materialism. I'm claiming that a self exists under materialism, and I'm arguing that materialism is wrong about the self's mortality.
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The self that exists in materialism is a process. By definition, when the brain stops functioning, the process stops. This is not a mathematical problem. The only way the self could continue is if it was a separate entity and not a process.
 
Jabba said:
:blush:

- Again, something difficult to express effectively. To me, at least, "pool" at least implies a limitation, so an ''unlimited" pool really means no pool. And, in that case the whatever comes out of nowhere.
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godless dave said:
It comes out of the cells your brain is made of. Those are made out of matter which mostly comes from the food you eat (and food your mother ate).
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- The next hurdle. If we were able to reproduce a perfect copy of your brain, we wouldn't reproduce YOU. YOU does not come out of the cells of your brain.
 
Jabba said:
Sodhner,
- I'm not looking at whether or not a soul exists under materialism. I'm claiming that a self exists under materialism...
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No, you are assuming that a "self" (by which you have admitted that you mean "soul") exists under materialism, and basing your argument against materialism on that premise. Your argument fails because it is based on a false premise (among other reasons).
 
Jabba, do you understand that "materialism is false because materialism is false" is not a particularly satisfactory argument?
 
Jabba said:
- The next hurdle. If we were able to reproduce a perfect copy of your brain, we wouldn't reproduce YOU. YOU does not come out of the cells of your brain.
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It does come out of the cells of your brain. If both the original and the duplicate self identify as Jabba, what exactly is missing?
 
Jabba said:
I claim that if there is no limited pool of potential whatevers -- but there are, in fact, some whatevers -- there has to be an unlimited pool of them.
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Jabba, you’ve found the ultimate term to use for equivocation. After years of “self”, (the real)”YOU”, and “identity” you now present us with “whatever”. Of course, no one will be fooled but it really is the ultimate word. Cuz “Whatever” can mean whatever you need it to. Congratulations!
 
Jabba said:
- The next hurdle. If we were able to reproduce a perfect copy of your brain, we wouldn't reproduce YOU. YOU does not come out of the cells of your brain.
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We already covered this hurdle. You agreed a perfect copy of my brain would produce a perfect copy of my self. Reproducing my brain would reproduce my self.
 
*Sighs* This why we have to stop using the term materialism. Jabba only understands it enough to think it means "Reality exists" is just another subjective opinion.
 
Jabba said:
- The next hurdle. If we were able to reproduce a perfect copy of your brain, we wouldn't reproduce YOU. YOU does not come out of the cells of your brain.
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That's exactly and only where it comes out of, in materialism. As has already been pointed out, that's the definition of materialism.

I said it before, but I'll say it again: my dog literally has better apprehension skills than you're displaying here.
 
Jabba said:
- The next hurdle. If we were able to reproduce a perfect copy of your brain, we wouldn't reproduce YOU. YOU does not come out of the cells of your brain.
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Yes it does. A perfect copy of you would produce YOU. If course, if we could actually do it, there would be interesting implications, but that is another matter.

Hans
 
Jabba said:
- The next hurdle. If we were able to reproduce a perfect copy of your brain, we wouldn't reproduce YOU. YOU does not come out of the cells of your brain.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does reproduce you. You DOES come out of the cells of your brain. That's what being a process of the brain means.
 
Jabba said:
- The next hurdle. If we were able to reproduce a perfect copy of your brain, we wouldn't reproduce YOU. YOU does not come out of the cells of your brain.
Click to expand...

This is not "the next hurdle," it's your latest attempt to get away with assuming the conclusion you're trying to reach. The materialist hypothesis is that YOU is a process carried out by the cells of a functioning brain, and that therefore YOU most definitely does "come out of the cells of your brain," for a reasonable interpretation of that statement. By claiming otherwise you are asserting the premise that the materialist hypothesis is incorrect, which is the initial conclusion that you are attempting to prove. By making this claim you are making your argument circular, as you have been for the last five years.

Dave
 
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