Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

JesseCuster said:
What's your contention for what we're looking at? The idea of the trees being planted as a Chilean government project in the 1960s is apparently too absurd for you to even entertain, so therefore they lied about creating it and it's really a 12,000 year old something or other created by ancient South Americans who were part of a global civilisation that had something to do with Gobleki Tepe and Easter Island? Even though the trees have a lifespan measured in hundreds of years? And these trees still exist and the site has maintained the same neat lines of rows after 12,000 years? The original trees haven't been replaced by new wild growth as you'd expect to happen? :confused:

If that's not what you're claiming, then what exactly are you claiming? As is your modus operandi, you're being quite coy about what exactly you're saying about this site other than disbelieving what you're been told about it for no other reason that sheer incredulity and a lot of shoddy ideas (such as your bizarre idea of it containing billions of trees) about it with no basis in fact.

Have you thought through the ramifications of what you're implying with these posts?
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I just found this place, and everyone wants me to be clear about what I'm "claiming"...???

I have no clue what any of this means, or what 'dates' should be employed.

I never said anything about EI or these sights dating to 12,000...EI has been re-occupied, throughout the millennia and if these initial orchards are connected to them, this date isn't necessary.

So, I am not in any way prepared to make a claim yet...other than to say the trees photographed in all those pictures were NOT planted by the local government...then endangered by a bombing target area. That is complete hogwash.

IF you believe that, I have a bridge and some magic beans for you.

As for the lines I followed... They aren't anomalies...they lead to places with orchards and layouts for other such plantings all up and down the west coast of the Americas. None of them are as big as the one I have posted, but they all have similar trees of the same sizes as those I found and posted in the previous pictures.

I have been looking for the parallel forest for decades...and to have found several using Google Earth...WOW.

If you'd like, use this technique and post your findings. I have to write 4 pages on my data and design portion, so I'll be back thereafter. (*Anyone here ever written a thesis or dissertation? I am considering creating a post over in the Education Section...)
 
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King of the Americas said:
I just found this place, and everyone wants me to be clear about what I'm "claiming"...???

I have no clue what any of this means, or what 'dates' should be employed.

...

So, I am not in any way prepared to make a claim yet...other than to say the trees photographed in all those pictures were NOT planted by the local government... That is complete hogwash.

IF you believe that, I have a bridge and some magic beans for you.
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There's a contradiction there.

1) You only just 'found' this place and can't be expected to make any claims.
2) You contest the factual record and claim it is hogwash.

That is in itself a claim. Do you have any evidence for either your position that it is whatever you think it is, or that it isn't what it factually is?

You might want to hold onto those beans - whoever sold them to you must have been telling you the truth, right?
 
King of the Americas said:
I just found this place, and everyone wants me to be clear about what I'm "claiming"...???

I have no clue what any of this means, or what 'dates' should be employed.

I never said anything about EI or these sights dating to 12,000...EI has been re-occupied, throughout the millennia and if these initial orchards are connected to them, this date isn't necessary.

So, I am not in any way prepared to make a claim yet...other than to say the trees photographed in all those pictures were NOT planted by the local government...then endangered by a bombing target area. That is complete hogwash.

IF you believe that, I have a bridge and some magic beans for you.

As for the lines I followed... They aren't anomalies...they lead to places with orchards and layouts for other such plantings all up and down the west coast of the Americas. None of them are as big as the one I have posted, but they all have similar trees of the same sizes as those I found and posted in the previous pictures.

I have been looking for the parallel forest for decades...and to have found several using Google Earth...WOW.

If you'd like, use this technique and post your findings. I have to write 4 pages on my data and design portion, so I'll be back thereafter. (*Anyone here ever written a thesis or dissertation? I am considering creating a post over in the Education Section...)
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Just to be sure I understand...

You centered GoogleEarth on EI. Then you found lines that are clearly artifacts from the photography of this geographic region. Next, you followed these lines eastward towards the Americas. The lines "clearly" led to forestation projects or something. This is evidence of global trade prior to Christopher Columbus (which I might add is nowhere near "ancient", but I digress).

Here's what I want you to do next. Pick any random angle beginning with EI and intersecting with either of the Americas. Follow said line into the American landmass. See what you find. Repeat with different angle. Record your results. I would dare say, with near certainty, that you have just discovered something that no one else ever has.

The Americas have a lot of friggin' trees.
 
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King of the Americas said:
(*Anyone here ever written a thesis or dissertation? I am considering creating a post over in the Education Section...)
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Not only have I written many - including one on sacred spaces in the context of hermeneutical archaeology - but I also have to routinely grade theses.

One of the primary problems you're going to find is that theses are part of the peer review process where actual experts in the relevant fields will work overtime to locate and demolish every one of your over-reaches.

If, for example, you make a claim about the alleged ancient age of a site which is actually known to be of modern provenance, you'll find that your thesis is worth less than the paper it's written on.

That's why people like Hancock turn to popular publications, because their ideas cannot stand up to the scrutiny of experts in the field.
 
Sparhafoc said:
Not only have I written many - including one on sacred spaces in the context of hermeneutical archaeology - but I also have to routinely grade theses.

One of the primary problems you're going to find is that theses are part of the peer review process where actual experts in the relevant fields will work overtime to locate and demolish every one of your over-reaches.

If, for example, you make a claim about the alleged ancient age of a site which is actually known to be of modern provenance, you'll find that your thesis is worth less than the paper it's written on.

That's why people like Hancock turn to popular publications, because their ideas cannot stand up to the scrutiny of experts in the field.
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Yep, if a student showed up with the stuff he 'has' he'd be sent back to Kindergarden and told to start over.
 
KotA, post an image of one of your underwater straight line features that you followed on Google Earth. I guarantee it isn't what you think it is and is just an artefact of the data on Google Earth.
 
Oh my he does seem to be going off the deep end

ccording to Google themselves, ship tracks are the leftover traces of an oceanic depth measuring process called “echosounding”. Google previously wrote about the process when many of their users thought they might have stumbled onto remnants of Atlantis on Google Earth several years back.
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http://weekinweird.com/2013/05/18/reader-mail-heck-weird-tracks-bottom-ocean/

https://googleblog.blogspot.ca/2009/02/atlantis-no-it-atlant-isnt.html

hqfXN9l.jpg


KOTA suffers from a common fringe brain/reality problem: if he sees something he doesn't understand, he doesn't look it up, he doesn't ask a question, instead his default is to scream and yell its evidence for the lost civilization.

Its almost like a knee jerk reaction.

The comedy value is immense!
 
Plato and the theosophists, Le Plongeon and other crackpots, left a rich vein of fool's gold. But some hustlers can transform it into real gold from fools.
 
Maksutov said:
Plato and the theosophists, Le Plongeon and other crackpots, left a rich vein of fool's gold. But some hustlers can transform it into real gold from fools.
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Yeah those who can write well can feed people's thirst for the 'magical'. Aliens, bigfoot, monsters and lost civilizations - all hidden from the common people by evil scientists and governments.
 
John Jones said:
You've been here since 2001, you lying ass.
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In his defense, I think that "just found this place" refers to the Chilean tree plantation, not to these forums.

Not that it helps his case.

I noticed in the Atlantis/Menorah thread, KotA was very coy about being explicit about what it was he was claiming and he's not pulling the same trick, implying that he isn't really saying anything about the tree plantation in Chile.

Except he's really saying a lot.

He thinks that it's a preposterous lie that it exists as a result of a 1960s tree planting project by the Chilean government. No reason has been given for why he believes this to be a lie, apparently the idea is just prima facie absurd and should be rejected outright.

He has explicitly claimed that the tree plantation is evidence of a pre-Columbian global trade system. The reason he thinks this is because when looking at Easter Island on Google Earth, he followed a Google Earth mapping artefact created by long stretches of underwater data being higher resolution than the available data in the surrounding sea floor. Following one of these straight lines led him to this tree plantation in Chile. Therefore pre-Columbian global trade routes.

I can't figure out the logic behind this at all. It's not that I disagree with it, I just can't find a coherent argument in KotA's posts regarding the tree plantation that lead to a conclusion of pre-Columbian global trade in order to deconstruct it.

It's all very silly and getting quite pathetic.
 
JesseCuster said:
KotA was very coy about being explicit about what it was he was claiming
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He's copying Erich von Däniken's technique in "Chariot of the Gods". He will mention a whole lot of things and then ask fuzzy rhetorical questions that don't connect to the things he mentioned.

If you try to counter his rhetoric, you are forced to set out his implied claim and he can just say "I never said that".
 
Matthew Ellard said:
He's copying Erich von Däniken's technique in "Chariot of the Gods". He will mention a whole lot of things and then ask fuzzy rhetorical questions that don't connect to the things he mentioned.

If you try to counter his rhetoric, you are forced to set out his implied claim and he can just say "I never said that".
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Passive aggressive trolling. lol
 
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