Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

[Dr. Keith]

I did not make the assumption that she was thirsty. You just did.

Are you walking back that assumption? That is fine.

No, you made another assumption. I saw that and thought "I wonder how many assumptions we could make" and then I remembered your lesson in how the word "thirsty" can be applied to women who come forward with news stories.

I thought you would appreciate the reminder of other assumptions you could make. Like I said, I was just adding to your little pile of assumption.

 

[d4m10n]

That’s irrelevant to my point, which had to do with your contention:
Hiliting mine.

You seem to be eliding over the unwilling bit.

 

[The Big Dog]

No, you made another assumption. I saw that and thought "I wonder how many assumptions we could make" and then I remembered your lesson in how the word "thirsty" can be applied to women who come forward with news stories.

I thought you would appreciate the reminder of other assumptions you could make. Like I said, I was just adding to your little pile of assumption.

Oh dear, i didn't make those assumptions either.

It would appear that you are having difficulty distinguishing between the people making the assumption (ie, that the accuser is thirsty = your assumption) with the person noting those assumptions (ie me)

If you are assuming she is thirsty, by golly that is your right.

It does not mean that her allegations against franken are not true.

See how that works??

 

[Brainster]

And is the history of the pic that she had the only copy? Sounds like self-humiliation for her to release it.

No, apparently the photographer sent everybody on the tour CDs with all the photographs taken. So no, the humiliation was not self-inflicted.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Here is the post wherein you made your assumption:

I "assume" she didn't do it before because before #metoo she was quite rightfully concerned that she would be slut shamed like she was in this thread.

Does that clear up your confusion?

 

[fuelair]

Umm, that is not slut shaming. Posting pictures of her in a bikini in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with her in her bikini for the sole purpose of discrediting her is slut shaming.

This is so obvious that I am stunned that people are defending this argument.

No offence, but I do not track slut shaming with pictures of women nude or in bikinis (etc.) as slut shaming. Possibly as I do not regard women who choose to pose for such or be in public in/out of such clothing (or not-clothing) as sluts - never have and I am pretty sure never will. Unless there is commentary that makes it such - in which case I regard the commentary as that of a raving *******.

 

[xjx388]

There is video of the president talking about how he sexually harasses and assaults women then doing it after he gets off the bus.

A video of him talking about women letting him touch them because he is a star is not a video of him committing sexual assault or harassment. He did not then, grab the actress by the pussy after he got off the bus. Mind you, I think what he said and how he treats women is pretty disgusting, but it isn't a description of sexual harassment or assault. What he said to Brande Roderick ("Must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees."), while technically true , is a pretty blatant display of sexual harassment.

Similarly, what Franken did is not sexual assault but it most certainly is harassment in the same vein as Trump's "knees" comment.

 

[The Big Dog]

Here is the post wherein you made your assumption:

Did you notice the quotation marks around the word "assume" in that sentence?

 

[Travis]

I am getting out of here; the Partisan Blinders people are wearing is too much to take.

Quick! To the castle! Up the drawbridge.

Care to ever actually elaborate?

 

[xjx388]

WTF ?

I still don't understand why she is ashamed ?

WTF did she do to be ashamed about ?

It was probably humiliating to her at the time it was being passed around and giggled about. At this point, releasing it corroborates her story so she likely feels like it's worth it to release it despite whatever embarrassment it might cause her.

It's not that SHE did anything to be ashamed about but that there's a picture of her in such a compromising position. If you can't see why a woman might be embarrassed about that then that's probably part of the problem.

 

[Belz...]

Did you notice the quotation marks around the word "assume" in that sentence?

What did you mean if not assume, then? What does the word in scare quotes stand in for?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

It was probably humiliating to her at the time it was being passed around and giggled about. At this point, releasing it corroborates her story so she likely feels like it's worth it to release it despite whatever embarrassment it might cause her.

It's not that SHE did anything to be ashamed about but that there's a picture of her in such a compromising position. If you can't see why a woman might be embarrassed about that then that's probably part of the problem.

Thanks for trying, but you don't get to just say "you don't understand so that's the problem."

So now she's not ashamed and humiliated , but she's embarrassed, because Al franken acted like a jackass ?

As for the hilighted, well, again, we've already covered the topic of pictures of her in compromising positions, yes ?

 

[KatieG]

+1.

Depending on how he used the picture, it could be harassment, but judging by just the picture it's not assault.

However, it's pretty stupid for a senator to engage in something like this, and such behaviour should be strongly discouraged.

He was not a senator at the time this picture was allegedly taken. While in poor taste and tactless, he is not actually touching her breasts. Franken's call for an ethics investigation into his actions speaks better for him than others that have been accused. Let the actual truth be told.

 

[Minoosh]

Not all sexual assault is a crime.

What would you count as noncriminal sexual assault?

It isn't the pressure that is the issue. It is the forcing the tongue into her mouth that is the problem. If that happened to my kid in a drama class or a coworker in a winter party play rehearsal, I would be livid.

The picture is being discussed at such great lengths because it's the evidence presented, along with the unproved assertion of unwelcome tongue insertion, of so-called sexual assault.

In my state, the way the laws are written, sexual assault is a synonym for rape. For the most part that means penetration, but tongue in mouth isn't included. "Groping" would fall under sexual abuse. But apparently most states don't have that distinction. I think it's useful. Lumping the whole spectrum in together is problematic, IMO. There's just too great a variety of behaviors to be covered under the same law. I can understand being revolted when you're not expecting someone to slip you some tongue, but it is just not the same as being violently raped at gunpoint. There are quite a lot of people in the latter category and I'd just as soon see enforcement centered on them.

 

[quadraginta]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...we-tipped-off-news-partners-before-publishing

In a statement Friday, KABC said a “very small group” of employees discussed the best day for host Leeann Tweeden to come forward with her account of being forcibly kissed and groped by Franken in 2006.

The station says it informed “some of our news partners so they could prepare to cover what we knew was a very significant story."

First paragraph of that article;

A Los Angeles radio station is pushing back on reports that former Trump campaign adviser Roger Stone appeared to know sexual misconduct allegations involving Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) were coming hours before they were made public.


Interesting. They aren't doing a very good job of "pushing back".

They admit that a group at the station discussed it and then informed "some of our news partners".

"How many people does it take to keep a secret?" Any qualified news professional knows the answer to that old saw, and it isn't "some of our news partners". Or "a group", even.

Once they informed "some of" their news partners, that horse was well out of the barn even if one of the "group" didn't spill the beans. They might just as well have posted it on Facebook.

In fact, doing it their way was probably more efficient. It ensured that word would get straight to the people who would make the most hay out of it.

 

[Minoosh]

Here's a question just out of interest: How many apologies in any of these cases include the simple phrase "I'm sorry," as in "I'm sorry I acted this way," not, "I'm sorry if you interpreted my actions this way"?

 

[d4m10n]

What about if a picture like that surfaced, of you and an unwilling coworker at a different job a couple decades ago? Should your current employer fire you?

I know 2017 has felt like ten years, but...

ETA: He already knew he was running for Senate, according to the NYT.

 

[Dr. Keith]

What did you mean if not assume, then? What does the word in scare quotes stand in for?

Man, I've been down this road. It took over fifteen posts to figure out a single word included three unstated assumptions the last time. Have fun.

 

[Dr. Keith]

He was not a senator at the time this picture was allegedly taken. While in poor taste and tactless, he is not actually touching her breasts. Franken's call for an ethics investigation into his actions speaks better for him than others that have been accused. Let the actual truth be told.

I have two takes on these issues, only the second is related to your good post.

The first is that it is up to the the voters. Yep, even Alabama deserves to be able to put a kiddie diddler in the senate if that is the man that best represents their state.

The second is that their conduct as a senator speaks more loudly than their conduct prior to becoming a senator. As such, Franken has acting like a senator once the issue was raised by apologizing and asking to be investigated. We will see what Moore does once he is elected. But, if he continues to act as an embarrassing man-child, then he should be treated as one.*

*I'm not sure what that would entail. Maybe a cabinet position or something.

 

[beren]

WTF ?

I still don't understand why she is ashamed ?

WTF did she do to be ashamed about ?

How is this hard?


Shame is rarely logical. As an example, rape victims often feel shame even though they are the victim. It may not make sense to you personally, but it is a documented and frequent occurrence.

This appears to arise (although I am not an expert here) from the tendency humans have to blame themselves for things outside of their control. Children often feel a parent's divorce is their fault, for example. There are many examples of people blaming themselves for not being able to stop a horrible event even though they could not realistically have done so.

If one blames themselves for something irrationally, this can easily lead to shame.

Logical? no.
Real? Yes.
Common? Yes.
Predictable? Verymuch so.