Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

[Oystein]

not kidding, literally the worst defense of slut shaming I have ever seen.

Post some NSFW pictures of the accuser to REALLY drive that point home....

Except I never defended any slut shaming since none took place.

 

[logger]

Right... that's what I said. But thanks for your bizarro world grammatical parsing.

No actually you didn’t say that. You minimized it by strangely saying “he knows he did something” even Franken would not have said it like that.

I can imagine Franken saying, “gee I know I did something”

 

[Oystein]

Let me stop you after your third try and ask that, if you have an issue with a specific person's contribution, please...be specific. Vague, blanket denunciations (not to mention the faux quote in the second of your posts above) don't help address what you appear to claim is problematic.

Seconded

 

[logger]

Except I never defended any slut shaming since none took place.

Explain to me again her purpose for posting it?

 

[Oystein]

Tweeden's interview with Jake Tapper is very good, and removes any lingering doubts I might have had about her motivations. She comes across as credible and sincere. I have immense respect for her.

And for what its worth, Franken's second apology (not sure if it's been posted or linked in this thread yet) is more articulate and heartfelt than his lame first attempt. He's admitted to what he did and is willing to face the consequences. I find that respectable too.

Good post.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Not if you think Moore's should end........

If you give one a pass, you need to give both a pass.

Do you believe a kid playing cops and robbers should be judged the same as one who steals from his mother's purse?*



*Yes, these examples are of children's actions; I understand. I'm only using them as an illustrative contrast in behavior.

 

[Oystein]

Uh huh. She just posted nsfw pictures of the accuser to uh... show that she would have been groped before and... therefore... walk us through it again?

Really, love to hear how her history at hooters and her nsfw pictures, you know, fit in here.

Because it seems like blunt slut shaming of the worst type.

I already walked you through it. Apparently no point in repeating the exercise when you wilfully refuse to follow. Just re-read.

 

[The Big Dog]

Correct, and neither Ginger nor I said or implied it did.

Nope just that her background makes it more likely that she was groped and the fact she was groped before and did not report it makes her not credible.

To prove it? Her are some nsfw work bikini pictures:

Nsfw bikini pictures! Yay

 

[Oystein]

So American Politics is coming to this:All that Matters is whether there is a R or a D after you name......

No. You really should not make such generalized accusations while never actually ever addressing anything anyone actually said.

 

[NoahFence]

You even manage to misconstrue your own lie. Know no shame?

None of those people do. Did you see who they elected? They're truly vying to make hypocrisy an Olympic sport.

They're going to sweep the medals.

 

[The Big Dog]

I already walked you through it. Apparently no point in repeating the exercise when you wilfully refuse to follow. Just re-read.

Say, you got through that post without accusing me of lying.

No, you did walk us through why her nsfw bikini pictures were necessary to show that terrible argument with which you disagree.

Walk me through that.

Walk us through that will you?

 

[PhantomWolf]

USA politics might need to have US law referenced?

Well with groping of women in clubs, it's pretty much a worldwide problem. Talk to a few of the members of the opposite sex, you'll find that of those that go to clubs, most if not all have had it happen at some stage, yet you know what is missing? Stories on men being prosecuted for doing so. Clubs admit it's an issue and kick out the repeat offenders, but they rarely get the police called on them.

In the search I did, though admittedly limited, I found 5 cases going back 7 years (most in the UK but one in the US) where a guy was prosecuted, and in all but one case he was arrested not for groping, but rather because they got violent on being challenged.

One broke a bottle of his victim's husband's head when challenged.

One punched, knocked down, and then started kicking his victim's two female friends when they intervened.

One was thrown out but returned to the club and violently attacked the bouncer trying to force his way back inside.

One started fighting with the bouncers when they tried to remove him, and then attacked the police when they arrived (this was the US one) and it should be noted that "Officers did not charge him for assaulting the woman because they could not find her, police said."

The final one was charged with 3 counts because he was a known serial offender and got fined a grand total of 600 pounds.

Oh, and of cause in almost all cases it seems the lawyers for the defendant wrote it off and a "bit of harmless drunk groping, nothing serious."

 

[logger]

Well with groping of women in clubs, it's pretty much a worldwide problem. Talk to a few of the members of the opposite sex, you'll find that of those that go to clubs, most if not all have had it happen at some stage, yet you know what is missing? Stories on men being prosecuted for doing so. Clubs admit it's an issue and kick out the repeat offenders, but they rarely get the police called on them.

In the search I did, though admittedly limited, I found 5 cases going back 7 years (most in the UK but one in the US) where a guy was prosecuted, and in all but one case he was arrested not for groping, but rather because they got violent on being challenged.

One broke a bottle of his victim's husband's head when challenged.

One punched, knocked down, and then started kicking his victim's two female friends when they intervened.

One was thrown out but returned to the club and violently attacked the bouncer trying to force his way back inside.

One started fighting with the bouncers when they tried to remove him, and then attacked the police when they arrived (this was the US one.)

The final one was charged with 3 counts because he was a known serial offender and got fined a grand total of 600 pounds.

So you’re admitting that you were wrong?

I can agree that clubs don’t call the cops, but if they did, the offender would be charged.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Jesus the people pretending they would be having the discussion the exact same way if the only factor that was different was D at the end of the title was switched to an R is hilarious.

If I happen to have been included in your imaginary group scenario, please consider yourself corrected.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

And that was their decision to make, same this time.

So based on a single incident/accusation and a bad joke (non-groping grope picture) every Senator or Congressperson should resign and run for reelection?

 

[logger]

So based on a single incident/accusation and a bad joke (non-groping grope picture) every Senator or Congressperson should resign and run for reelection?

Wow!!!

Hell must be freezing over!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This is kind of my point. We give people passes on their bad behaviour because it's "just a prank" and that allows it to become acceptable to do. It's time we stopped seeing it as acceptable behaviour when it quite clearly isn't.

Not everyone is saying boy on boy jokes are OK, I'm not. But honestly that photo is a non-grope grope. It's not like it was akin to the Steubenville videos.

 

[rwguinn]

The only way one can consider pictures of an individual in swimwear - or even nude, for that matter- as "slut-shaming" is if he has a real hang-up over the female (or make) form Devine.
In other words, only a "slut" would be seen in public in a bikini.

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[Skeptic Ginger]

Elevatorgate involved a man who asked a woman to come back to his room. She declined. He did not force the issue, grope her or pursue any action beyond that. No harassment there, just a dude that got shot down.

Franken wrote a skit that included a kiss. He then insisted on a practice session. Why would the practice session need a real kiss? Actors talk with each other about what is acceptable in these kinds of scenes; there is consent. Marlon Brando did not obtain consent from Maria Schneider for what he was about to do to her in "Last Tango in Paris," and I'm sure you can see why that was a problem. While obviously not on the scale of the "Paris" scene, essentially the same thing happened here; Franken did not obtain consent for a real kiss from Tweeden and she did not like it. Then he took a picture pretending to grab her boobs while she was sleeping.

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to call Franken a monster. But his behavior is on the same spectrum as any other sexual harasser in the history of sexual harassment. You can argue that this was minor sexual harassment if you want to. I argue that any sexual harassment is unacceptable.

Moore? He should drop out of the race. Trump? He never should have been elected. O'Reilley and Ailes? Already given the boot and with good reason. Franken? It's time for him to step down.

First, yes elevatorgate involved something benign. But all sorts of people took the side of it being close to sexual assault, gripes about objectifying women flew, some people suggested men not get on elevators if a woman was alone on one.

Now you may see the Franken incident as worse than the elevator come-on. Fine. It was a skit Tweeden didn't appreciate. He didn't grope her in the dressing room. There are dozens of make-out skits on SNL.

I'll repeat it, it is possible Tweeden saw it differently than Franken. Tweeden is saying right now she accepts Franken's apology.

The Franken incident is not equivalent to the other incidents.

 

[The Big Dog]

The only way one can consider pictures of an individual in swimwear - or even nude, for that matter- as "slut-shaming" is if he has a real hang-up over the female (or make) form Devine.
In other words, only a "slut" would be seen in public in a bikini.

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Umm, that is not slut shaming. Posting pictures of her in a bikini in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with her in her bikini for the sole purpose of discrediting her is slut shaming.

This is so obvious that I am stunned that people are defending this argument.