Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

Darat said:
"nobody seems bothered by it" have you never read about the problems with hazing in the military?
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Yes, I'm aware of the problems. But in this context, they were the equivalent of college roommates who became really good friends and pranked each other with extremely suggestive photographs while, say, one slept and his mouth hung open. That was just a funny thing to do amongst that group of friends. My brother was the "victim" of such pranks and he was not bothered in slightest. They all remain good friends to this day even though they are deployed/live in different parts of the world.

"Hazing," has a different connotation than simple collegiate hijinks.
 
Why are progs so excited about Franken submitting to the ethics committee of an organization that pays out millions of dollars in secret harassment claims on behalf of its members?

"Hey! You've been molesting the chickens! What do you have to say for yourself?"

"I humbly place my fate in the hands of the foxes that run this henhouse."
 
ChristianProgressive said:
I absolutely think that victims should come forward (if they chose to do so). But you have to admit we've had at least, what, seven or eight (or more) in a matter of weeks? After having a couple a year at most? It looks odd.

It could also be as PhantomWolf suggests, that the dam just broke. I think a lot of dams are either breaking or close to it.
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Going by the latest reporting, it's very much a case of a lot of dams breaking. Mostly it has been started by women who were past the point of having their careers negatively impacted by coming out with their accusations against these powerful men. Doing so has opened the door for others to feel safer in revealing their own past history of abuse by these men; and the reaction has opened the door for other women whose careers are currently in a position to be affected to come forward with less fear of potential consequences.

There's still a long way to go on that, however.

uke2se said:
I agree. I didn't express myself clearly. Sorry about that.

If it turns out all Franken did was perform an inappropriate joke, and there's no indication that this is an ongoing problematic behavior, I think he should be censured for the trangression he did make, but that it would be too much to remove him. If an investigation turns out that this is ongoing and problematic, he should be removed.
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I would tend to agree with this. There is a world of difference in the nature of the current accusations against Franken compared to Moore, Weinstein, Trump, and others; and an even greater difference in how those accusations were addressed by the accused.

As it stands right now, taking the accusations at face value, there was a single incident, which was not pursued. His actions at the time were certainly worthy of censure, but he has accepted responsibility for them and encouraged further investigation; and his actions and voting record indicate that he is on the right side of the issue. They do not IMO require his expulsion from the senate or his resignation. Should further credible accusations come to light, then I would strongly support his resignation or expulsion.

By contrast, the accusations against the likes of Moore and Trump are far more egregious, part of a much larger pattern of abuses, and have been met with denial, victim blaming/shaming, threats of defamation lawsuits, and in Trump's case at least, bragging about his ability to get away with such abuses. Huge difference.
 
dudalb said:
Not if you think Moore's should end........

If you give one a pass, you need to give both a pass.
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Why? The victims in each do not seem to have the same desires. Moore's victims don't want him in the senate, Franken's has accepted his apology and does not think he should resign. Clearly we need to blame these victims for their double standards.

These crimes are not all the same, there is a scale from Franken, through Louis CK up to Weinstien. Why should the punishment be universal?
 
theprestige said:
Why are progs so excited about Franken submitting to the ethics committee of an organization that pays out millions of dollars in secret harassment claims on behalf of its members?

"Hey! You've been molesting the chickens! What do you have to say for yourself?"

"I humbly place my fate in the hands of the foxes that run this henhouse."
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...are you referring to me? What's a prog?
 
The Big Dog said:
By the way, Donald Trump absolutely drunked on Al Franken this morning.
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luchog said:
As it stands right now, taking the accusations at face value, there was a single incident, which was not pursued. His actions at the time were certainly worthy of censure, but he has accepted responsibility for them and encouraged further investigation; and his actions and voting record indicate that he is on the right side of the issue. They do not IMO require his expulsion from the senate or his resignation. Should further credible accusations come to light, then I would strongly support his resignation or expulsion.

By contrast, the accusations against the likes of Moore and Trump are far more egregious, part of a much larger pattern of abuses, and have been met with denial, victim blaming/shaming, threats of defamation lawsuits, and in Trump's case at least, bragging about his ability to get away with such abuses. Huge difference.
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This pretty well sums it up for me.

I would add that in two decades of being on the set of Saturday Night Live, Franken had ample opportunity to behave badly. If he did, we are likely to hear of it.
 
dudalb said:
SO if someone says "I'M Sorry" he should not be punished for his behavior?
Nice.
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That seems to satisfy the victim. Should the desires of the victim be taken into account?

Why should the punishment for this be one size fits all?
 
PhantomWolf said:
The worst light is that it was a picture of him actually in the action of groping her. Groping is a form of sexual assault.
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Why not discuss what the photo “actually” indicates he was doing, rather than what you’ve written?
 
Beelzebuddy said:
...are you referring to me? What's a prog?
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It's short for "progressive".

"Liberal" is a diluted and contentious term. I think "progressive" is a much more accurate and agreeable shorthand for people whose policy positions tend to spring from a particular kind of idealism. It also stands neatly across from "conservative", the opposing wellspring of policy ideals.
 
crescent said:
This pretty well sums it up for me.

I would add that in two decades of being on the set of Saturday Night Live, Franken had ample opportunity to behave badly. If he did, we are likely to hear of it.
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Congress has paid out $15 million in sexual harassment claims. That's a lot of bad behavior. How much have you heard about, before this week? I don't buy the argument that because we haven't heard about it, probably nothing happened.
 
theprestige said:
It's short for "progressive".

"Liberal" is a diluted and contentious term. I think "progressive" is a much more accurate and agreeable shorthand for people whose policy positions tend to spring from a particular kind of idealism. It also stands neatly across from "conservative", the opposing wellspring of policy ideals.
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And what ideals should a prog espouse?
 
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