Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

[acbytesla]

There are, probably, different kinds of people with different goals and personalities making up the PGP. Some may simply be hoaxers looking for a laugh or intending to upset people by posting false and inflamatory statements.

But some of the PGP may be conspiracy theorists. And and as such, this group of PGP will certainly not be convinced by facts or logic. For conspiracy theorists, especially where the conspiracy theory claims to have identified a vicious murderer, those that oppose the theory using facts or logic are in league with that murderer. That way of thinking is an explanation for the malicious personal attacks directed at Knox, the PGP's arch-villain, and at their lesser arch-villan, Sollecito, and of course, all their minor villains arguing the facts and logic of innocence.

Here's an excerpt from an article that discusses the psychology of conspiracy theorists:

Conspiracy Theories Are Driven by People, Not Facts

You can’t really argue with people who believe in conspiracy theories, because their beliefs aren’t rational. Instead, they are often fear- or paranoia-based beliefs that, when confronted with contrarian factual evidence, will dismiss both the evidence and the messenger who brings it. That’s because conspiracy theories are driven by the people who believe and spread them and their own psychological makeup — not on the factual support or logical reasoning of the theory itself.

Conspiracy theories aren’t going away, for as long as there are people who have a need to believe in them, they will continue to expand and thrive. The Internet and social media sites such as Facebook have only made such theories even easier to spread. Save your breath arguing with people who believe in them, as no amount of facts will dissuade them from their false belief.
Source: https://psychcentral.com/blog/archi...nspiracy-theories-why-do-people-believe-them/

Conspiracy theories such as the Masons, Mafia, US State Dept. and judges being bought off being behind the acquittals?

Tell me that doesn't sound like someone we know.

I remember when Hellman was discussed in positive terms by people at TJMK and PMF and the moment he ruled in favor of Amanda and Raffaele he became a pariah and was accused of taking bribes. Of course, they have never provided any proof. EVER.

 

[Stacyhs]

After being alerted that my name was mentioned at dotnut, I took a look out of curiosity. I find it amusing that they seem obsessed with following what we discuss here. ISF is a public forum. They can post here whenever they want. Yet they don't. On the other hand, they restrict who can post on dotnut. That says a lot: they prefer an echo chamber to actual debate.

 

[bagels]

To be fair, you can't post here if you're banned. IDK how you get banned arguing about a case where a burglar with a history of pulling knives and hopping into 2nd story windows was found in a 2nd story broke-in cottage dripping in blood and semen over a naked girl's stabbed body whose rapekit would reveal said burglar who later fled the country and was arrested with mysterious cuts on his stabbing hand and was matched to CCTV video near the cottage before the murder, alone, and was recorded speaking privately to his friend saying he met Meredith alone and she was attacked by a single male attacker. But there you have it.

 

[Stacyhs]

To be fair, you can't post here if you're banned. IDK how you get banned arguing about a case where a burglar with a history of pulling knives and hopping into 2nd story windows was found in a 2nd story broke-in cottage dripping in blood and semen over a naked girl's stabbed body whose rapekit would reveal said burglar who later fled the country and was arrested with mysterious cuts on his stabbing hand and was matched to CCTV video near the cottage before the murder, alone, and was recorded speaking privately to his friend saying he met Meredith alone and she was attacked by a single male attacker. But there you have it.

Someone must have been a naughty little poster.

 

[Vixen]

Blaming your lies on someone else I see. I NEVER saw a single TV commentator announce that it was a 'sex adventure'. So like so many other of your posts it is another of your FILTHY LIES. It is TRASH to characterize a book you've never read.

The book is 496 pages long and there is barely a mention of sex and ABSOLUTELY NONE OF IT GRAPHIC. So either retract your lies or read the GOD DAMN BOOK. I am offended by this blatant dishonesty. I'd be ashamed of printing so many total fabrications. I would think others would be. But then again some people have only shame about sex.

It is an unreadable pack of lies. It is too nauseating for any right-minded person to read for long.

 

[Vixen]

We know nothing of the kind, but then, we own the book and have read it. How about you document the pages and paragraphs that qualifies as porno and so fully populates the book. That should be interesting.

BTW, you've already fulfilled meeting the "glib capacity for compulsive lying" criteria (several times over, in fact) to qualify as a psychopath so you can stop this lying whenever you want. Why not start providing us some of the details of your youthful sexcapades so we can start documenting another criteria for you - "reckless promiscuity". We don't need the whole thing, just a few minor details and then we'll fill in the blanks, just as you've been doing for Amanda. It's really amazing how easily you can prove someone a psychopath when you get to make crap up all the time.

It's for you to ask and for me to tell...

 

[acbytesla]

It is an unreadable pack of lies. It is too nauseating for any right-minded person to read for long.

How do you know? You haven't read it. But do us all a favor and STOP LYING about what's in it then.

 

[Vixen]

I asked you before to provide evidence that Chris R is related to the Seattle Herald Robinsons. You failed to do so. Frankly, I have no idea if he is or isn't. But I'm not the one making the claim he is. What I do know is that, like ACbyTesla, I could find no evidence anywhere that he is related to them. Yet, you continue to claim something for which you have no evidence either. Let me see if I can act surprised at that. Hmmmmm....nope.

As for your comments regarding Chris R, why the need to make such nasty remarks about him when you know absolutely nothing about him? It's yet another example of the need to denigrate everything and everyone connected to Knox. Sadly, I am not surprised at this either.

No, it's no big deal that Amanda and Madison had coffee recently. Friends often do that. What it does do, however, is disprove your lies about Amanda having dropped Madison and Madison wanting nothing to do with Amanda.

LOL...Nice try at spin. Ardak Kussainova didn't "report" her to the police for anything. The police interviewed her. Ardak simply told them about being Amanda's classmate, going to the cottage several times to study and play guitar, having dinner with Amanda, Laura, Filomena and Meredith. She also said one of those night, Meredith and Amanda were leaving early to go to a music concert. She said she did not know Raffaele, and had only seen the boys downstairs there who where smoking and watching TV. She said she had seen Amanda on Halloween dressed as a cat at the pub.

She also said:



Your need to negatively embellish what Ardak said is typical of your need to paint Amanda in the nastiest way possible. Just stop it. Try sticking to the facts and leaving your personal spin out of it. It's childish.

The lady from Kazaksthan (_sp?) whom Knox refers to as 'Ada' (can't even get the 'foreign' name right)contacted the Perugia police to report Knox' conduct.

 

[Vixen]

A little data to help.

There are 607,945 people in the U.S. with the last name Robinson.
Statistically the 27th most popular last name.
There are 3,155 people with the name Christopher Robinson living in the United States.
http://howmanyofme.com/search/?sur=robinson&given=christopher

The State of Washington makes up 2.5 percent of the United States so a reasonable estimate of the number of people with the surname Robinson living in Washington State is about 16,000 people. There are around 80 people named Christopher Robinson in the State which means about 45 with that name living in the Seattle metropolitan area. The odds are far greater that Amanda Knox's boyfriend is not related to the Robinson newspaper family than that he is.

Now I don't think it is all relevant whether or not he is. There certainly is no reason to believe Amanda was hired because of an intimate relationship with Christopher as she was dating someone else when she was hired.

But what is relevant, is how Vixen can confidently say there is a familial relationship since I can't find this published anywhere.

I suggest given Vixen's track record of fabricating stories outright and embellishing other stories with falsehoods, this is far more likely to be a lie than the truth. And that is sad. As Vixen said 'compulsive lying is a diagnostic for psychopathy' Makes you go 'hmmmm'.

I never knowingly lie about anything. Personalisation, much?

All my assertions are based on fact.

https://www.westsideseattle.com/ballard-news-tribune/2014/05/26/jerry-robinson-1920-2014

 

[Vixen]

How do you know? You haven't read it. But do us all a favor and STOP LYING about what's in it then.

I did try to read it but it was the biggest load of **** since Mein Kampf, which I also had to give up on.

 

[Vixen]

Me too. But I wouldn't support Amanda or Raffaele for a second if I thought they had anything to do with killing Meredith. In fact, at one time I believed that they were probably involved as I gave the benefit of the doubt to the authorities and could have cared less about this case.

But a work associate, our CFO was friends with Curt Knox and he was supporting the family. So then I started to read about it. But at that time, finding out the truth was very hard. It was only after the Massei trial where enough facts became available that made me go 'what?' The inconsistencies were just too many and too bizarre. It dawned on me that no God damn way were they involved and this was nuts. And that's when it really hits you. If this could happen to a middle class girl from West Seattle, it could happen to my little sister. That's when I got angry.

I wonder if any of these hard core guilters will ever have an epiphany? I mean Amanda and Raffaele are in there 30s and neither of them has EVER been arrested or convicted of a crime outside their false arrests in Italy. Vixen said that criminality was a diagnostic for psychopathy so clearly they aren't psychopaths.

Do they ever go 'I was wrong'?

Sucking up to the boss, eh? I am sure Curt Knox is a respectable chap - aside from refusing to pay child maintenance for his spawn Amanda (and who can blame him, seeing how that turned out) - however, it doesn't matter how nice the parents are, it doesn't absolve their unruly wayward offspring from their cruel crimes.

 

[bagels]

The lady from Kazaksthan (_sp?) whom Knox refers to as 'Ada' (can't even get the 'foreign' name right)contacted the Perugia police to report Knox' conduct.

Did she contact them before Amanda was arrested and accused of murder or after? It makes a substantial difference. People can always spot the eyes of a killer...in hindsight.

I also wonder about her e-mail home. It was sent to the police, but the question is before or after the arrest?

I'm trying to document if there was a single person on Earth suspicious of Amanda before her arrest that didn't work for the Italian government.

 

[Welshman]

It is an unreadable pack of lies. It is too nauseating for any right-minded person to read for long.

PGP tell blatant lies about what Amanda has written in her book and then complain the book is full of lies. PGP have no idea of the blatant hypocrisy this shows. Another prime example of gross stupidity by PGP.

 

[acbytesla]

I never knowingly lie about anything. Personalisation, much?

All my assertions are based on fact.

https://www.westsideseattle.com/ballard-news-tribune/2014/05/26/jerry-robinson-1920-2014

Well we've proven countless times that no, all your assertions are not based on fact. Most of them DEFINITELY are not. Over the years we've only rarely seen you provide any citations. But it is nice to see that maybe some of them are. Note, I said 'maybe' as the link for that thumbnail is broken.

 

[acbytesla]

Sucking up to the boss, eh? I am sure Curt Knox is a respectable chap - aside from refusing to pay child maintenance for his spawn Amanda (and who can blame him, seeing how that turned out) - however, it doesn't matter how nice the parents are, it doesn't absolve their unruly wayward offspring from their cruel crimes.

He wasn't my boss. I worked in sales, not in accounting.

More scorched earth I see. And lest you forget. Knox never committed any crimes.

 

[Numbers]

Here's an interesting example of an ECHR judgment, ILGAR MAMMADOV v. AZERBAIJAN (No. 2)
919/15 16/11/2017, which is based on the ECHR's evaluation of how the evidence was treated in a trial. The relevance to the AK – RS case is that the Knox's trial for calunnia against Lumumba, and the preliminary verdicts in the Massei and Nencini courts, and the judgment in the Chieffi CSC panel appeal, had features of arbitrariness broadly similar to those identified in this case against Azerbaijan. Here is the ECHR's press summary of the case:

The case concerned the criminal proceedings brought against a prominent Azerbaijani opposition politician, Ilgar Eldar oglu Mammadov, following protests in the town of Ismayilli in 2013.

Mr Mammadov was subsequently charged and convicted of mass disorder. This is the second case he has brought before the European Court of Human Rights; the first concerned his arrest and pre-trial detention following the same events.

In today’s Chamber judgment in the case of Ilgar Mammadov v. Azerbaijan (No. 2) (application
no. 919/15) the European Court of Human Rights held, unanimously, that there had been:
a violation of Article 6 § 1 (right to a fair trial) of the European Convention on Human Rights.
The Court found that the domestic courts had either not addressed or remained silent about a
number of inconsistencies in the evidence used to convict Mr Mammadov, despite the defence’s repeated objections about flawed or misrepresented evidence.

In particular, as concerned the witness statements for the prosecution: some of the police officers who testified that Mr Mammadov had incited protestors to violence had only been questioned five months after the protests and one had retracted his pre-trial statement saying that he had signed it without even reading it. As concerned certain video recordings used to convict him: one had shown clashes between protestors whereas another had shown footage of calm streets with very few protestors.

Furthermore, Mr Mammadov’s blog posts and social media posts as well as a transcript of a radio interview, used to prove that he had planned the mass disorder, had dated either from when he had been in Ismayilli or after leaving it, and had contained no incitement to violence. Indeed, in the news coverage on the riots, which the courts found to be in support of the prosecution’s case, there had been no express reporting of any actual outbreak of violence during the afternoon of 24 January 2013 when Mr Mammadov had been present in Ismayilli.

In conclusion, there had been serious shortcomings in the manner in which the evidence used to convict Mr Mammadov had been admitted, examined and/or assessed. Equally, the manner in which the courts had dealt with the defence’s objections concerning that evidence had been inadequate. Indeed, any evidence favourable to him had been systematically dismissed in an inadequately reasoned or manifestly unreasonable manner.
Source: http://echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=home
See: PDF press release, Chamber judgment concerning Azerbaijan

 

[Bill Williams]

I did try to read it but it was the biggest load of **** since Mein Kampf, which I also had to give up on.

Mein Kampf!!!!???? Really?

This post is from the, "let's make up the wildest comparison I can think of," department.

What happened to Mignini and Nick van der Leek lately really has thrown you for a loop.

 

[acbytesla]

I did try to read it but it was the biggest load of **** since Mein Kampf, which I also had to give up on.

Mein Kampf!!!!???? Really?

This post is from the, "let's make up the wildest comparison I can think of," department.

What happened to Mignini and Nick van der Leek lately really has thrown you for a loop.

This is Vixen's excuse for not reading then recklessly lying about what's in the book. Isn't that a bit ironic? Hey, I 'think' (not that the evidence supports those thoughts) is full of lies so I should have a license to lie about it?

Keep in mind that Vixen referred first that Amanda Knox's book is a porno and it's full of crap and also fully admits she NEVER read the book. ( I'm not sure what it means to 'try to read a book') Does that mean reading the title page and the then looking at the number of pages and coming to the conclusion that 496 pages is just too long? Vixen apparently never paid heed to Yoda. 'Do or don't do, there is no try.'

The definition of pornography/porn/porno is the depiction of sexual acts. ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE in Amanda's book are there any depictions of sexual acts.

 

[Bill Williams]

Given that the book which she hasn't read is now compared to both Mein Kampf and "a porno"......

Historians everywhere are now going to have to revise post-WW1 history. Mein Kampf is now officially "a porno".

All because in the last month Nick van der Leek has been exposed as a plagiarist and Giuliano Mignini lost his defamation claim against Raffaele Sollecito and Andrew Gumbel.

 

[TruthCalls]

Me too. But I wouldn't support Amanda or Raffaele for a second if I thought they had anything to do with killing Meredith. In fact, at one time I believed that they were probably involved as I gave the benefit of the doubt to the authorities and could have cared less about this case.

But a work associate, our CFO was friends with Curt Knox and he was supporting the family. So then I started to read about it. But at that time, finding out the truth was very hard. It was only after the Massei trial where enough facts became available that made me go 'what?' The inconsistencies were just too many and too bizarre. It dawned on me that no God damn way were they involved and this was nuts. And that's when it really hits you. If this could happen to a middle class girl from West Seattle, it could happen to my little sister. That's when I got angry.

I wonder if any of these hard core guilters will ever have an epiphany? I mean Amanda and Raffaele are in there 30s and neither of them has EVER been arrested or convicted of a crime outside their false arrests in Italy. Vixen said that criminality was a diagnostic for psychopathy so clearly they aren't psychopaths.

Do they ever go 'I was wrong'?

I don't care how convinced you are of your conclusion, there is always room to look at the details and admit you had 'something' wrong, while still believing you got the conclusion correct. But I've never read a single admission of getting something wrong from any of these hard core guilters.

It's entirely understandable that someone with a cursory understanding of forensic science would think Luminol always shows you where there is blood, but with just a little research you can discover just how prone to false positives Luminol really is. And it doesn't take much more research to learn that if a sample is both TMB and DNA negative then that sample can NOT be made from the victim's blood. It's really not that difficult. Yet I've never seen a single hard core guilter ever say "OK, so the Luminol results weren't indicative of Amanda tracking Meredith's blood around, but I still think there's overwhelming evidence of her guilt". And at this point, if someone like Vixen were to ever say that - and mean it - I just might suffer a coronary!

So no, I'd say don't expect any epiphanies from any of the remaining hard core guilters.