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Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

  1. 9 November 2017: Present your evidence of an "advanced agricultural civilization" at Göbekli Tepe (or acknowledge your assertion was wrong)
  2. 9 November 2017: Present your evidence of a "globally connected" civilization about 12,900 BP (start of the Younger Dryas).
  3. 9 November 2017: Present your evidence of a single civilization building pyramids globally about 12,900 BP (start of the Younger Dryas).
  4. 9 November 2017: Present your evidence that Easter Island is being re-dated and to about 12,900 BP (start of the Younger Dryas).
  5. 10 November 2017: Why do scientists not have a theory of an asteroid impact causing the Younger Dryas?
  6. 10 November 2017: Citation for "ovens for bread" ovens at Göbekli Tepe
  7. 13 November 2017: Is not finding pink unicorns at GT evidence that pink unicorns existed at GT :p?
  8. 13 November 2017: Inanity of pointing out that there have been no "grain cello" (silos) found when that is evidence of no agriculture!
  9. 13 November 2017: A lie about a unsourced quote being evidence for ovens for bread
  10. 13 November 2017: Confirmed a delusion that a "global connected civilization" carved the hand carvings appearing at GT and on Easter Island.
  11. 13 November 2017: Where the carvings of foxes, etc. on Easter Island? Where the moai, makemake, birdmen, etc. at Göbekli Tepe?
  12. 14 November 2017: Source for one statue at Ahu Nau Nau being basalt.
  13. 14 November 2017: Source for that basalt statue coming from a basalt quarry that is now underwater.
  14. 16 November 2017: An ignorant fantasy that basically a lawyer with no stated archeology experience can identify sunken ruins in Google Earth
  15. 16 November 2017: A fantasy of a billion or hundreds of millions of trees planted in a nature reserve (Pampa del Tamarugal National Reserve) when his numbers say less than 50 million.
  16. 16 November 2017: A delusion that all "buried" moai face in the same direction and that is toward Chile (sources please)?
The last 2 points above lead to:
17 November 2017: An ignorant fantasy that Easter Island is "connected" to modern Chilean tree plantings because he followed undersea ridges to Chile on Google Maps.
 
Found "a row of H-shaped blocks" in The Non-Mystery of Pumapunku
It's one of those places where you've heard, probably many times, that the stones are so closely fitted that a knife blade cannot be inserted between them. Due to these features, Pumapunku is often cited as evidence that Earth was visited by aliens, Atlanteans, or some other mythical people who are presumably better at stonemasonry than humans.
...
So within the context of Tiwanaku, Pumapunku does not leap out as extraordinary. However it does differ from the other structures at Tiwanaku, in that many of the blocks are shaped into highly complex geometries. There is a row of H-shaped blocks, for example, that have approximately 80 faces on them; and all match each other with great precision. Pumapunku's stones suggest prefabrication, which is not found at the other Tiwanaku sites. In addition, some of the stones were held together with copper fasteners, some of which were cold hammered into shape, and others that were poured into place molten.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of crank web sites about Pumapunku so a Google search tends to turn up lies such as it was a port (the shore has been many kilometers away from the site for the past 4,000 years) and that the precisely fitted blocks are massive (there is 1 131 metric ton block, another about half that weight and the vast majority are small enough to be easily transported from the quarries).

The row of H-shaped blocks has no "interlocking Puma Punku H-stones". They are placed rather roughly side by side. There seems to be no actually interlocking H-shaped blocks. At last 1 person thinks they never did at Megalithic Madness – Puma Punku H Blocks do not Interconnect? - makes a good case but they seem an amateur.
 
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Reality Check said:
You may have missed the question - what are your sources for your assertion giving measured direction that the moai all face.

Also: Why cherry pick these "buried" moai?
Click to expand...

I think he's trying to make another spurious connection to GT: Moai were buried, GT was buried, they must have been created by the same global civilization!

Makes me think, maybe this burying technology is evidence that the global civilization had developed nuclear fission. Otherwise how where could they have gotten the energy to move such massive amounts of earth! This also connects to the holes posted by Hans. It's all coming together.
 
So...I said that I located or found this artificial forest by following a line from EI to the coast.

Since there are others, I followed those, to see if I could find similar plantings.

Is it REALLY your contention that the national government planted seeds, and watered them enough for them to sprout and take root, in the 60's...? *ALL of the old sepia pictures posted showed tall trees. One link provided said they were planted already between 14-22 ft.

THE BIGGEST artificial forest ever planted...no pictures of people watering small seedlings, or the fields of saplings as scientists measured growth rates...no replanting or maintaining those struggling to reach ground water...

Admittedly, I WAS off a bit on my initial count. My apologies. I still have not counted every existing square...but I know that each one was planted containing 144 plants across and down, with another 900 or so surrounding it. Call it 21,500'ish, per square.

There are hundreds of squares...spread cross three sections. The northern section was the first one I stumbled on, the largest one is due south, and there is another even further south.

Due East of the upper orchard is a modern runway...just to the south is another mock runway...I think it is a bombing test run site...the air strip is about 60 yards wide, with craters about 8 yards wide...So...the government spent untold billions of dollars to plant millions of seeds or trees and then they set a bombing range next to it...???

REALLY?

But please...let me get back to the other paths and what they lead to.

Before I begin, are there any other big government planting projects of South America anyone would like to share?
 
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Roboramma said:
Can you explain how this connects to GT?
Click to expand...

Maybe the lines I followed from EI to find this artificial forest are not anomalies at all, but ancient guild posts of some kind...

So far, I have found several that lead to similar plantings, grid-like geoglyphs, possibly other planned plantings that never happened.

The connection?

I am arguing, and presenting evidence of global trade before Christopher Columbus...
 
King of the Americas said:
The connection?

I am arguing, and presenting evidence of global trade before Christopher Columbus...
Click to expand...

No your not.

All you are doing is looking at images that in your opinion mean something based on your own personal bias. The term meaningless comes to mind.
 
King of the Americas said:
I am arguing, and presenting evidence of global trade before Christopher Columbus...
Click to expand...


If by 'global' trade you mean goods moved across Eurasia, there's no real argument to be made as there is hard evidence dating back as far as the late Paleolithic.

If you are claiming that there was trade between the Americas and the rest of the world even prior to the 15th century, the fact is that you can only 'argue' because there is no evidence to support such a contention.
 
King of the Americas said:
Maybe the lines I followed from EI to find this artificial forest are not anomalies at all, but ancient guild posts of some kind...

So far, I have found several that lead to similar plantings, grid-like geoglyphs, possibly other planned plantings that never happened.

The connection?

I am arguing, and presenting evidence of global trade before Christopher Columbus...
Click to expand...
To sum up: you have found signs of some kind that look like anomalies, some leading to things that never happened. That's not very impressive as evidence of anything, is it?
 
King of the Americas said:
Maybe the lines I followed from EI to find this artificial forest are not anomalies at all, but ancient guild posts of some kind...

So far, I have found several that lead to similar plantings, grid-like geoglyphs, possibly other planned plantings that never happened.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, you are positing that they made roads in the ocean? Why would anyone do that? What would they be made of? How do they show up on the surface of the ocean which is not made of the same water at the same place for more than very short periods of time?

The connection?

I am arguing, and presenting evidence of global trade before Christopher Columbus...
Click to expand...
How long before?
 
I thought we couldn't dig any deeper, but we now have deep sea roads, and CONAF is in on the conspiracy by claiming to have planted all these trees that KotA says could not possibly have been planted.

Crikey.

I mean, the ancient, lost civilisation was one thing, but this is a whole new level of kookery.
 
King of the Americas said:
So...I said that I located or found this artificial forest by following a line from EI to the coast.

Since there are others, I followed those, to see if I could find similar plantings.

Is it REALLY your contention that the national government planted seeds, and watered them enough for them to sprout and take root, in the 60's...? *ALL of the old sepia pictures posted showed tall trees. One link provided said they were planted already between 14-22 ft.

THE BIGGEST artificial forest ever planted...no pictures of people watering small seedlings, or the fields of saplings as scientists measured growth rates...no replanting or maintaining those struggling to reach ground water...

Admittedly, I WAS off a bit on my initial count. My apologies. I still have not counted every existing square...but I know that each one was planted containing 144 plants across and down, with another 900 or so surrounding it. Call it 21,500'ish, per square.

There are hundreds of squares...spread cross three sections. The northern section was the first one I stumbled on, the largest one is due south, and there is another even further south.

Due East of the upper orchard is a modern runway...just to the south is another mock runway...I think it is a bombing test run site...the air strip is about 60 yards wide, with craters about 8 yards wide...So...the government spent untold billions of dollars to plant millions of seeds or trees and then they set a bombing range next to it...???

REALLY?

But please...let me get back to the other paths and what they lead to.

Before I begin, are there any other big government planting projects of South America anyone would like to share?
Click to expand...

Stop it! Your're just embarrassing yourself now!
 
King of the Americas said:
So...I said that I located or found this artificial forest by following a line from EI to the coast.

Since there are others, I followed those, to see if I could find similar plantings.

Is it REALLY your contention that the national government planted seeds, and watered them enough for them to sprout and take root, in the 60's...? *ALL of the old sepia pictures posted showed tall trees. One link provided said they were planted already between 14-22 ft.

THE BIGGEST artificial forest ever planted...no pictures of people watering small seedlings, or the fields of saplings as scientists measured growth rates...no replanting or maintaining those struggling to reach ground water...

Admittedly, I WAS off a bit on my initial count. My apologies. I still have not counted every existing square...but I know that each one was planted containing 144 plants across and down, with another 900 or so surrounding it. Call it 21,500'ish, per square.

There are hundreds of squares...spread cross three sections. The northern section was the first one I stumbled on, the largest one is due south, and there is another even further south.

Due East of the upper orchard is a modern runway...just to the south is another mock runway...I think it is a bombing test run site...the air strip is about 60 yards wide, with craters about 8 yards wide...So...the government spent untold billions of dollars to plant millions of seeds or trees and then they set a bombing range next to it...???
Click to expand...
What's your contention for what we're looking at? The idea of the trees being planted as a Chilean government project in the 1960s is apparently too absurd for you to even entertain, so therefore they lied about creating it and it's really a 12,000 year old something or other created by ancient South Americans who were part of a global civilisation that had something to do with Gobleki Tepe and Easter Island? Even though the trees have a lifespan measured in hundreds of years? And these trees still exist and the site has maintained the same neat lines of rows after 12,000 years? The original trees haven't been replaced by new wild growth as you'd expect to happen? :confused:

If that's not what you're claiming, then what exactly are you claiming? As is your modus operandi, you're being quite coy about what exactly you're saying about this site other than disbelieving what you're been told about it for no other reason that sheer incredulity and a lot of shoddy ideas (such as your bizarre idea of it containing billions of trees) about it with no basis in fact.

Have you thought through the ramifications of what you're implying with these posts?
 
King of the Americas said:
Maybe the lines I followed from EI to find this artificial forest are not anomalies at all, but ancient guild posts of some kind...

So far, I have found several that lead to similar plantings, grid-like geoglyphs, possibly other planned plantings that never happened.

The connection?

I am arguing, and presenting evidence of global trade before Christopher Columbus...
Click to expand...
WTF does this tree plantation have to do with global trade? You're most certainly not arguing for an ancient global trade with these bizarre fact-free conspiracy-minded fringe posts about Chilean tree plantations. You've made no attempt at any connection between the trees and ancient trade routes.

WTF are you talking about?
 
King of the Americas said:
Maybe the lines I followed from EI to find this artificial forest are not anomalies at all, but ancient guild posts of some kind...
Click to expand...
The lines you followed are...

A. Artefacts of Google Earth

B. On the bottom of the ocean.

Can you post a screenshot of these lines that you think are "ancient guild posts"?

Do you imagine that ancient travellers were travelling across the ocean floor when going from Easter Island to South America?

You haven't thought any of this through at all.
 
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