Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

Assuming the accusations are credible (as seems to be the case with the accusation against Moore), most will ignore the thread (as I have with the Moore thread). Even if I were inclined to do so, I don't see any sense in trying diversionary tactics; the guy's toast.

Franken's problem is that the visual evidence of the photograph is very compelling.

But it's only ONE accuser...........

Yeah, the double standard in this thread is astonishing.
You know if Franken had an 'R" after his name rather then a "D" some of the people defending him would be screaming for his blood.........
 
Going to disagree there. Personally I think that nothing someone did in their past renders a person unfit to serve their fellow people. It's up to those people if they want that person to serve for them or not.

If the people of Alabama vote for Moore knowing what he has done, then he should serve until they decide he is unfit. Same with Franken, hence why I say he should stand down, and then stand for re-election, let the people decide if they still want him serving them.

The GOP brought up an accusation based on an SNL skit proposal Franken made, see my above post. The voters didn't care.
 
If someone had a photo of them taken while groping or pretending to grope a sleeping guy's junk, then I'd expect them to step down from any leadership positions too.

I had to think about this. What about frat boys drawing dicks on each other's faces when they sleep? When guys do this kind of stuff to guys, I don't view it the same way as when guys do this to women. Guy-on-guy harassment is more of a prank.

Probably because I believe rape culture is real and every woman I know has a story about being harassed/attacked/groped, etc.
 
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But it's only ONE accuser...........

Yeah, the double standard in this thread is astonishing.
You know if Franken had an 'R" after his name rather then a "D" some of the people defending him would be screaming for his blood.........

You are ignoring all the arguments for why only one accusation is not enough and adding your own false assumptions. How about addressing the actual arguments instead of your straw reason?
 
It's not like he grabbed her in the dressing room and forced a kiss on her.

That is exactly what he did! He insisted that they "rehearse" and then ended sticking his tongue in her mouth.

"I'm guessing when she worked at Hooters she endured a lot worse than someone writing a skit she was to kiss them in."

Not slut shaming, tho, by the way, here is a link to relevant bikini pictures...

This thread absolutely blows me away
 
You are ignoring all the arguments for why only one accusation is not enough and adding your own false assumptions. How about addressing the actual arguments instead of your straw reason?

There are none, it was completely made up out of whole cloth and the entire argument that there has to be a pattern is patently offensive.
 
It's as common as dirt. It's what people do when they live together in groups. They joke around.

Just because something is "common as dirt" doesn't make it right. Once upon a time slavery was "common as dirt" too.

And personally I see nothing funny about pretending or actually sexually harassing or assaulting someone else.

'Grabbing pussy because they let you' is not 'locker room talk'. That was Trump's excuse for his behavior, denying it was true.

Seriously, you need to listen to yourself for a moment.... you are blasting Trump for his excusing his behaviour all while excusing other's similar behaviours in exactly the same way, by calling it "Messing about" and "joking"

I'm sorry, I just can't agree that every little offense taken is on that scale you speak of.

Don't get on an elevator if there is a lone woman on it lest you frighten her.

Now your arguments are just getting stupid. Merely standing in an Elevator with them is not assuming any form of control of another person. Pretending to, or actually, groping them without consent is.
 
The fact that he's in a leadership position is exactly why the penalty should be severe. If he was a Joe Shmoe that no one knew and did it at an office party, then an apology and a mark on his employment record might be enough, but when he is a leader of the country, the penalty he gets will create a message that goes out to everyone as to if this behaviour is acceptable or not. If he stood down, then that message is a very loud "Hell no it isn't" if he gets a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket, then it tacitly gives approve to this sort of degrading behaviour, it tells men across the US that it is acceptable to treat women like play things for their own amusement, and the more powerful you are, the more acceptable it is. There is already mixed messages on this with Hollywood trying to do the right thing, while the Republicans are split as to what to say. This isn't the right time to enhance that split message by saying this sort of behaviour is okay.

This.

This also entails that Bill Clinton should become persona non grata.
 
Not if you think Moore's should end........

If you give one a pass, you need to give both a pass.

Wait, but you just said one's not as bad as the other... don't you think that some reasonable person might think that the lesser act doesn't disqualify the person from office while the other doesn't?
 
Just because something is "common as dirt" doesn't make it right. Once upon a time slavery was "common as dirt" too.

And personally I see nothing funny about pretending or actually sexually harassing or assaulting someone else.

Seriously, you need to listen to yourself for a moment.... you are blasting Trump for his excusing his behaviour all while excusing other's similar behaviours in exactly the same way, by calling it "Messing about" and "joking"
Apples and oranges. I agree to disagree with you.

Harassment, via pictures, yes, that can be wrong and be a problem. Every bit of hazing, joking, embarrassing pictures, no matter the context, it's part of bonding. It sounds like you are drawing the line at no one should play a joke on another no matter what. And maybe you think I'm drawing it where I am not. Franken isn't touching her, it's a joke.

Pouring warm water on your sleeping coworker's crotch is going too far.

Video of your roommate's horrid snoring is a joke. Taking videos of someone in the shower is going too far.

Now your arguments are just getting stupid. Merely standing in an Elevator with them is not assuming any form of control of another person. Pretending to, or actually, groping them without consent is.
I take it you are not familiar with elevatorgate?
 
Wait, but you just said one's not as bad as the other... don't you think that some reasonable person might think that the lesser act doesn't disqualify the person from office while the other doesn't?

Just use the sliding scale of sexual assault works every time:thumbsup:
 
That is exactly what he did! He insisted that they "rehearse" and then ended sticking his tongue in her mouth.

"I'm guessing when she worked at Hooters she endured a lot worse than someone writing a skit she was to kiss them in."

Not slut shaming, tho, by the way, here is a link to relevant bikini pictures...

This thread absolutely blows me away

We've seen it all before, with Bill Clinton back in the 1990s. "If you drag a hundred dollar bill through a trailer park you never know what you'll find."

The good news is that Franken's not Bubba and this isn't the 1990s, so it looks like he should get ready for life under the bus, because he's about to get thrown under it.
 
Funny, that sounds an awful lot like what the Moore supporters are saying.....

You will have to elaborate because I've heard nothing similar from Moore's defenders. They seem to think that he is being framed by the Liberal media. Does anyone here think Franken is being framed?



Who cares?

We're talking about Franken, not Moore. What Moore did isn't relevant, unless, as noted, making sure each side's slaps on the wrist are properly and accurately tallied for future "Whataboutism" is like super important you.

Why does a worse case somewhere matter outside of ideological point scoring? It doesn't change what what Franken did. We're not grading on a curve.

You might as well go "Well this lady was harassed by let's not forget this other lady that was hit by a meteorite."

Oh right because meteorites aren't partisan. If there was a Republican meteorite you would be doing that.

Be an American, be a Human, be something other than just a Democrat for thirty seconds and care about what happened to this women.

Someone said the punishment should be the same. Which is a stark black and white mentality that does not belong in justice. It ignores all the messy nuance and context of the real world.
 
I had to think about this. What about frat boys drawing dicks on each other's faces when they sleep? When guys do this kind of stuff to guys, I don't view it the same way as when guys do this to women. Guy-on-guy harassment is more of a prank.

Probably because I believe rape culture is real and every woman I know has a story about being harassed/attacked/groped, etc.

This is kind of my point. We give people passes on their bad behaviour because it's "just a prank" and that allows it to become acceptable to do. It's time we stopped seeing it as acceptable behaviour when it quite clearly isn't.
 
It's as common as dirt. It's what people do when they live together in groups. They joke around.

'Grabbing pussy because they let you' is not 'locker room talk'. That was Trump's excuse for his behavior, denying it was true.

I'm sorry, I just can't agree that every little offense taken is on that scale you speak of.

Don't get on an elevator if there is a lone woman on it lest you frighten her.

Elevatorgate involved a man who asked a woman to come back to his room. She declined. He did not force the issue, grope her or pursue any action beyond that. No harassment there, just a dude that got shot down.

Franken wrote a skit that included a kiss. He then insisted on a practice session. Why would the practice session need a real kiss? Actors talk with each other about what is acceptable in these kinds of scenes; there is consent. Marlon Brando did not obtain consent from Maria Schneider for what he was about to do to her in "Last Tango in Paris," and I'm sure you can see why that was a problem. While obviously not on the scale of the "Paris" scene, essentially the same thing happened here; Franken did not obtain consent for a real kiss from Tweeden and she did not like it. Then he took a picture pretending to grab her boobs while she was sleeping.

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to call Franken a monster. But his behavior is on the same spectrum as any other sexual harasser in the history of sexual harassment. You can argue that this was minor sexual harassment if you want to. I argue that any sexual harassment is unacceptable.

Moore? He should drop out of the race. Trump? He never should have been elected. O'Reilley and Ailes? Already given the boot and with good reason. Franken? It's time for him to step down.
 
The GOP brought up an accusation based on an SNL skit proposal Franken made, see my above post. The voters didn't care.

Surely you can see the difference between a comedic skit proposal and actually harassing someone outside of a skit?
 
We've seen it all before, with Bill Clinton back in the 1990s. "If you drag a hundred dollar bill through a trailer park you never know what you'll find."

The good news is that Franken's not Bubba and this isn't the 1990s, so it looks like he should get ready for life under the bus, because he's about to get thrown under it.

Yeah, I noted quite a bit of Bubba in this thread:

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Lots of references to "the woman" with people not deigning to actually use her name, even when they were linking to "the woman's" bikini shots.....

Dehumanize, shame, deny...

Real eye opener here....
 
Apples and oranges. I agree to disagree with you.

I see it as red apples vs green apples.

Harassment, via pictures, yes, that can be wrong and be a problem. Every bit of hazing, joking, embarrassing pictures, no matter the context, it's part of bonding. It sounds like you are drawing the line at no one should play a joke on another no matter what. And maybe you think I'm drawing it where I am not. Franken isn't touching her, it's a joke.

Pouring warm water on your sleeping coworker's crotch is going too far.

Video of your roommate's horrid snoring is a joke. Taking videos of someone in the shower is going too far.

The problem here is that you are comparing benign but potentially humiliating behaviours, such as video taping a friend snoring or playing a prank without sexual connotations to things that do have sexual connotations or are clearly sexual harassment in the least. Pretending to, or actually, groping someone who passd out is quite different to shaving their eyebrow or putting their hand in warm water. (though I'd actually say that even shaving an eyebrow these days might be too going too far to be honest.) I have no issue with pranking and joking and bonding, you can do that without the sexual references, innuendos, and harassment. You don't have to squeeze a woman's boobs (or pretend to squeeze them) to bond!

I take it you are not familiar with elevatorgate?

Familiar enough to know that more happened than just "standing in the same elevator."
 

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