Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny

Fudbucker said:
I misrread you.
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Happens all the time. :)

Fudbucker said:
I think women are less likely to get involved in wars, yes. I think they also might be better at coming together to form a consensus when it comes to issues like health care, environment, etc.
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That might be true, though I think you'll find that they'll be worse for other things as well. As I said, balance.
 
PhantomWolf said:
If someone had a photo of them taken while groping or pretending to grope a sleeping guy's junk, then I'd expect them to step down from any leadership positions too.
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Really?

I find it hard to believe that in the military this kind of joking isn't common. There must be a gazillon sleeping picture jokes of military men and women.

Women in the military are being raped and assaulted. That is something to be outraged about. The accusations over more minor things really lessens the seriousness of the significant issues.
 
Hmmm, linking to her past as a playboy model, hooters waitress, link to bikini pictures.

Golly, i wonder why more women didn't come out earlier??

Oh right, the unfettered slut shaming....
 
dudalb said:
And I don't like the guy, but Pence's policy of not being alone with a women other then his wife seems to have been a smart move on his part....
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It seemed silly at the time but now in retrospect,...
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Really?

I find it hard to believe that in the military this kind of joking isn't common. There must be a gazillon sleeping picture jokes of military men and women.

Women in the military are being raped and assaulted. That is something to be outraged about. The accusations over more minor things really lessens the seriousness of the significant issues.
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The woman's name is Leeann Tweeden and the person who Kissed and Groped her Without her Consent is a US Senator
 
The Big Dog said:
The woman's name is Leeann Tweeden and Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped her Without her Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It
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Actually, he didn't kiss her without consent.

And IDK if I count that as "groping" her , as it doesn't like like he's actually touching her.

grope
2.
informal
feel or fondle (someone) for sexual pleasure, especially against their will.
"he was accused of groping office girls"
synonyms: fondle, touch;
 
On the sliding scale of sexual assault seriousness is one kiss from what might have been a miscommunication and a pretend grope the same as actually groping and repeatedly kissing teenage girls?

Because while both are bad I see one as definitely way worse than the other. The response is also starkly different.
 
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TheL8Elvis said:
Do you really believe what franken was accused of doing and what trump was accused of doing are equivalent ?

Really ?
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It's not the same scale as a the pussy-grabber or the 14-year old feeler upper or the wiener-pic sender, but that's not the point, the point is that it's still on the scale at all, and if we are going to say that no secual hassament or abuse is acceptable (which it isn't) then it doesn't matter which end of the scale it sits on, it's unacceptable behaviour, and leaders that have engaged in that sort of behaviour need to show that they are willing to accept the consequences. If they refuse to do so, then what message does that send to the men that already think that sexually harassing and abusing others is their right? He needs to do the right thing, and that is stand down. He can let the voters decide if it is bad enough to keep him from being re-elected or not.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You do have to wonder how this stands out in her mind as the quintessential sexual harassment when clearly it must have been common in her life. You would think she had a gazillion worse complaints to be made.

Link is NSFW.
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Hmmm, people expect an actor to kiss that, and NOT slip her the tongue?

So, we're not supposed to "slut shame", but Geez, men are not eunuchs. Not even actors.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
If no one else comes out to say franken acted this way towards them, I move the idea that hannity/stone put her up to this out of the 'CT' column and move it towards the 'something to consider' column.
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I don't think they necessarily put her up to it. I don't think it's necessarily political. I suspect she doesn't like Franken, and I don't know if that's it or this is bandwagon jumping.

It doesn't matter and we shouldn't assume any of that. Regardless of the reason, the question still remains, is this one person's reaction to Franken or is it a pattern?

If one person believes, for whatever reason, that your actions toward them were abusive, then 1) it's either the actions were abusive and it's a pattern, or 2) the actions were abusive unintentionally (it happens), or 3) the actions weren't abusive and the person's interpretation of the actions was wrong.

I've already said the reason I don't put #1 on that list as the most likely is because Franken has been a promoter of women's rights for decades. That doesn't mean he couldn't still turn out to be an abuser. But I have no reason not to rule out #2 or #3 at this point.
 
casebro said:
Hmmm, people expect an actor to kiss that, and NOT slip her the tongue?

So, we're not supposed to "slut shame", but Geez, men are not eunuchs. Not even actors.
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I purposefully did not slut shame. But I can see why that is confusing to people. I repeat: "You would think she had a gazillion worse complaints to be made." "I most certainly don't believe if you are a model or waitress at Hooters it is expected of you to be groped."
 
PhantomWolf said:
It's not the same scale as a the pussy-grabber or the 14-year old feeler upper or the wiener-pic sender, but that's not the point, the point is that it's still on the scale at all, and if we are going to say that no secual hassament or abuse is acceptable (which it isn't) then it doesn't matter which end of the scale it sits on, it's unacceptable behaviour, and leaders that have engaged in that sort of behaviour need to show that they are willing to accept the consequences. If they refuse to do so, then what message does that send to the men that already think that sexually harassing and abusing others is their right? He needs to do the right thing, and that is stand down. He can let the voters decide if it is bad enough to keep him from being re-elected or not.
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Maybe Franken needs jail time. :rolleyes:
 
PhantomWolf said:
It's not the same scale as a the pussy-grabber or the 14-year old feeler upper or the wiener-pic sender, but that's not the point, the point is that it's still on the scale at all, and if we are going to say that no secual hassament or abuse is acceptable (which it isn't) then it doesn't matter which end of the scale it sits on, it's unacceptable behaviour, and leaders that have engaged in that sort of behaviour need to show that they are willing to accept the consequences.
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Well, I'm glad you weren't making the false equivalency then. :D

I think you will find the set of people who think franken should step down due to this coincides 100% with the group that thinks trump shouldn't be president because of what he did.

The problem is the group of people who think franken needs to go, but trump is ok.

I'm trying to find out if the prestige is in that latter group.


PhantomWolf said:
If they refuse to do so, then what message does that send to the men that already think that sexually harassing and abusing others is their right? He needs to do the right thing, and that is stand down. He can let the voters decide if it is bad enough to keep him from being re-elected or not.
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Franken said he will accept and participate in an ethics investigation - that sounds like the right thing.

They can investigate the charges there ... because that sounds like the right thing too. I'm not quite ready to just willy-nilly take anyones word for things that have big consequences with no investigation.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Do you really believe what franken was accused of doing and what trump was accused of doing are equivalent ?



Really ?
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Not at all. There’s an actual picture of Franken sexually harassing a woman.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Really?
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Yes really.

I find it hard to believe that in the military this kind of joking isn't common. There must be a gazillon sleeping picture jokes of military men and women.
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And if there are, then they would be just as wrong.

Women in the military are being raped and assaulted. That is something to be outraged about. The accusations over more minor things really lessens the seriousness of the significant issues.
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I totally disagree, in fact I say it's the exact opposite. If you say, "oh that was just messing around," to the small stuff, then it's too easy to slide the scale of "messing around" upwards. Where does "messing around" become "assault"? When you give licence to the little stuff, then you devalue the bigger stuff because people slowly get immune to it. Pretending to grope is okay goes to actual groping being okay, then pulling off tops being okay, and so on. When you say, zero tolerance, then the "messing around" is not okay and by extend anything worse is darn well not okay.

Think about this for a moment. If it wasn't for the whole "locker-room talk" thing with Trump, do you think there would even be a question as it if felling up a 14-year old was acceptable currently?

The way to stamp this out is to not be accepting of any of it, regardless of how "just messing around" it might be.
 
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