Merged US may close Cuba Embassy over 'health attacks'

[Sherkeu]

I've long had the suspicion that the Trump Administration wanted to roll back another Obama accomplishment, the improvement in relations with Cuba. This seems to confirm my suspicions and in part seem to be an attempt to bolster GOP among Cuban ex-pats in places like Florida.

True. But it wasn't always the case. For the majority of his campaign, and 5 or 6 visits to Florida, Trump was fine with opening up Cuba- especially market opportunities, like hotels and resorts. No surprise there really. He did say the deal could have been better.

In September 2015 he said "I think it's fine. But we should have made a better deal. The concept of opening with Cuba — 50 years is enough — the concept of opening with Cuba is fine. I think we should have made a stronger deal," he told The Daily Caller.
Trump also said in March that he would consider opening a hotel in Cuba.
"Maybe it won't work out, but I will tell you, I think Cuba has a certain potential and I think it's OK to bring Cuba into the fold," Trump told CNN.

In September 2016, his views had changed.

...the next president can reverse them. And that is what I will do unless the Castro regime meets our demands," Trump said Friday.
"Those demands will include religious and political freedom for the Cuban people and the freeing of political prisoners," Trump said.

Of course, this was after he became the nominee and more pressure was on to get those Florida votes. In the final stretch, you do what it takes to win, right? But it was also after he had access to classified security briefings (began Aug 17), which may have changed his friendly outlook.

 

[dann]

I'm talking about people with insider knowledge, not experts who are giving opinions based on the news story.
There are people with access to the highest security level information, inside and outside the current administration, who were working with Cuba and were there at the time. They are pro-normalization. It's their treatment of the attacks as fact that I find unusual given that it plays against their stated goals.
Why is some unknown secret weapon an accepted theory instead of say, a drug or poison that alters perception? Or the obvious psychogenic one?
Wouldn't you think they might say "That's quite a bold theory when there is no evidence such a device exists. These are clearly scare tactics! I trust the FBI will deliver their findings and Americans will be assured that Cuba was, and continues to be safe for our embassy staff." ??? Why are they not saying that?

My guess is that security has been tightened since Wikileaks and Snowden. The "treatment of the attacks as fact" is one thing, but at the same time they say that they don't know what might have caused it, which makes it a very strange 'fact' indeed!

No idea. The FBI has been there 4 times now. It's reasonable to think they have something they are investigating that requires their presence. I agree though that, whatever their theory, it didn't involve anything that would be caught on surveillance.
Maybe the FBI are lollygagging bureaucrats that go through certain investigative requirements before making a final report. Or they are using this unique 'invitation' to spend time with Cuban police/intelligence (basically working for the CIA). Who knows? They are currently acting as if they have something serious to investigate.

At one point the US authorities required no restrictions on the number of personnel being allowed to enter Cuba. This was one way increasing that number, if only temporarily, and probably also of gaining access to places that would otherwise have been off limits.

Yes, seems it wasn't considered some serious thing until later when some sort of pattern emerged. The illnesses, taken separately, are things with normal explanations, besides the descriptions individuals gave of sounds and vibrations. If it was super obvious, there would not be people who delayed reporting for weeks or months. Of course, that makes it seem as if they themselves had a normal explanation for what happened to them at the time and were later suggestible to recollect it in a more sinister way. Plus, there are still staff there now, so the threat level can't be very high or they would all be evacuated. (Like I said, I have competing theories!).

There was one eyewitness report that described vibrations being in one part of a room. Ill see if I can find it.

But that is the one that might just be a cricket or tinnitus (noise only, no vibrations): He heard the noise in bed, it disappeared when he got out of bed, only to return when he got back in bed again.

 

[dann]

The Cuba Acoustic Files: “The Balloon that Inflates By Itself” (Havana Times, Oct. 21, 2017)

An article about the declassified JFK files also mentions the recent 'attacks':

Surely it’s no coincidence that the first people affected by these alleged attacks were CIA agents who secretly operate in Cuba, under a diplomatic guise.
Would it be absolutely crazy to think that this is a new self-harm plan? Maybe we’ll have to wait another 50 years for these history files that the “Langley boys” write today to be declassified.
Where Cuba Fits in the Newly Declassified JFK Files (Havana Times, Nov. 2, 2017)

 

[dann]

These statements seem to echo those quoted in the Guardian article I linked to a couple of pages ago:

One of the statements was: "Some victims now have problems concentrating or recalling specific words."

The condition seems to be called either dysnomia, “Difficulty remembering names or recalling specific words: word finding problems,” or anomic aphasia.

In adults the latter may be caused by a stroke: Causes of Anomic Aphasia.

 

[dann]

A new statement has been issued by the CUBAN SOCIETY OF OTORHINOLARYNGOLOGY AND HEAD AND NECK SURGERY

(And in case I’m not the only one who didn’t know the word OTORHINOLARYNGOLOGY (Wikipedia))

As it has been informed in several news media, the American government has notified to the Cuban authorities the alleged occurrence of “acoustic attacks” against some officials of its diplomatic seat in Havana. According to the State Department of that country, these events started since November 2016, however, it was not until February 2017 that the Cuban State learned of these via an official note delivered to our Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The reported symptoms were: deafness, tinnitus, and disequilibrium, general physical discomfort, headaches, a feeling of pressure, cognitive disorders and a head concussion was even reported.

As soon as that information was made public it became a concern for Cuban ENTs and other related disciplines. Scientific research conducted by an Experts Committee, officially created to this effect, determined it is impossible that the symptoms referred by the US government were caused by a “sonic weapon”. On the other hand, toxicity and viral infections were also ruled out. All of the information gathered followed a document called “Medical Report” delivered to our Foreign Affairs Ministry and which lacks objective proof backing the American hypothesis. Concretely, it does not have the scientific requirements of the usual medical practice and Evidence Based Medicine.

Cuban and American ENTs have maintained a close academic relation, and an environment of ethics, transparency and friendship. For that reason, we reject the accusations related to the alleged sonic attacks and urge the American government to show medical evidence supporting such attribution. We found very worrisome the recent measures of the US government, damaging the free exchange between professionals and scientist of both countries.

We express our desire for the recovery of those diplomats and family members who might be sick, and the will to contribute to their recovery. We invite the homologue societies in America and the rest of the world to join this concern, and divulge its content and contribute to preserve scientific relations among health care professionals in the world, pursuant to our ethical duty to clarify the truth.
9 november, 2017

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Oh, just an emotional reaction on my part. My biases are showing. Pesticides scare me.

That's why I put in weasel words like "think" "might" and "possibility". I figured three weasel words would be enough.

Oh, and eta: My bias in relation to psychogenic (imaginary) causes is the opposite of Sceptic G's: She's a nurse and so has heard a lot of conflicting symptoms from worried people. ...

Nurse practitioner and in the particular areas of occupational health and infectious disease. It's not that I've seen a lot of patients, it's that I've addressed this particular phenomena more than once. The whole 'tear down the building someone found mold' hysteria happened when I was working as the hospital employee health provider. We also had a bunch of employees that thought something in the ED was giving people rashes and headaches. Headache and scratchy throat was a common catching ailment. And then there are the worker's comp cases where people are sure the new carpet or the building makes them ill, yet rarely if ever does someone's new carpet in the home make people ill. Driving to work with all those road fumes and disintegrating tires one breathes in every day never seems to create the same problems as work environmental toxins.

I'm saying in essence this is a problem that comes up in occupational health. I've had considerable experience and education in this area.

And I should point out, sometimes we actually do find building issues. And sometimes people really are reacting to new paint or new carpet fumes. There are indicators that help distinguish between hysteria and actual environmental toxins.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

A new statement has been issued by the CUBAN SOCIETY OF OTORHINOLARYNGOLOGY AND HEAD AND NECK SURGERY

(And in case I’m not the only one who didn’t know the word OTORHINOLARYNGOLOGY (Wikipedia))

This fits with what I see as well in as much as one can go by news accounts:

determined it is impossible that the symptoms referred by the US government were caused by a “sonic weapon”. On the other hand, toxicity and viral infections were also ruled out.

oto- ear
rhino - nose
larynx - throat

 

[calebprime]

I have considerable experience in not going to the doctor and in not being in an organization where I might be pressured to lie like the CIA, and a lot of experience of just kicking back, smoking weed, and masturbating.

Also, in fairness, listening to improving music.

So I would never go to the doctor unless I were unable to enjoy these things.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have considerable experience in not going to the doctor and in not being in an organization where I might be pressured to lie like the CIA, and a lot of experience of just kicking back, smoking weed, and masturbating.

Also, in fairness, listening to improving music.

So I would never go to the doctor unless I were unable to enjoy these things.

No worries. I wasn't discounting your experience. I was correcting a false assumption you made about mine.

 

[dann]

oto- ear
rhino - nose
larynx - throat

Thank you. I recognized the rhino from rhinoplasty and the larynx from laryngitis, but the oto … not so much even though I think I've used it once before myself in this thread.
Also: How do you tell them apart at first glance? OTOR-HINOL-ARYN-GOLOGY?!

 

[dann]

I've been in Berlin for the past couple of days so I didn't hear that Cuba had an online forum about the alleged acoustic attacks Thursday & Friday this week, and I hadn't noticed the announcement when it was made one week ago:

Cuba Puts Its Scientists Online To Dispute Washington's Sonic Attack Claims
Call to online forum on the alleged accoustic attacks
Statement of the Cuban Expert Committee on the celebration of the Online Forum (Nov. 17, 2017)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Thank you. I recognized the rhino from rhinoplasty and the larynx from laryngitis, but the oto … not so much even though I think I've used it once before myself in this thread.
Also: How do you tell them apart at first glance? OTOR-HINOL-ARYN-GOLOGY?!

If you are familiar with the prefixes/words your brain divides them appropriately. And ology is a very common suffix meaning the study of or the science of. Surely most people in this forum recognized that one.

As for oto, anyone who has ever used an otoscope would recognize that one.


Nice links, BTW.

 

[Steve]

Is the embassy closed yet?

 

[dann]

Seems to be up and running - unless you're Cuban and need a visa for the USA.

 

[dann]

Breaking News (5 hours ago):
US govt taps star brain-injury doctor to probe attacks on American diplomats (Crendy News, Nov. 20, 2017)

 

[dann]

Science vs. manipulation in alleged sonic attacks (CMHW Leader Radio Station, Nov. 15, 2017)

US experts prepare to release ‘sonic attack’ findings amid Cuba’s denial - Sources say Journal of the American Medical Association to publish findings (Local Ten News, Nov. 16, 2017)

Experts note inconsistencies in hypothesis about alleged sonic attacks (Granma, Nov. 16, 2016)

 

[dann]

Does anybody know anything about cicadas and crickets in Uzbekistan? They seem to be quite common.

But this is the news today: Uzbekistan incident raises suspicions of Russian involvement in Cuba attacks:

A newly revealed incident reported by a USAID officer who is based at the American embassy in Uzbekistan is raising suspicions Russia may have been involved and could have had a hand in bizarre attacks targeting U.S. diplomats in Cuba, according to American sources.
In September, the officer and his wife reported, according to one source familiar with the incident, what may have been at least one acoustic attack similar to those experienced by the diplomats in Havana. (CBS, Nov. 28, 2017)

Incident In Uzbekistan Raising Suspicions Russia Involved In Cuba Sonic Attacks (CBS Miami, Nov. 28, 2017)

I notice that the "attacks" don't seem to be merely alleged in the CBS reports.

 

[dann]

Breitbart (Nov. 29, 2017) reports that

State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert fervently denied that any incident had occurred in Tashkent, the Uzbek capital.

 

[William Parcher]

Doctors find brain abnormalities in victims of Cuba mystery

Doctors treating the U.S. embassy victims of suspected attacks in Cuba have discovered brain abnormalities as they search for clues to explain hearing, vision, balance and memory damage, The Associated Press has learned.

It’s the most specific finding to date about physical damage, showing that whatever it was that harmed the Americans, it led to perceptible changes in their brains. The finding is also one of several factors fueling growing skepticism that some kind of sonic weapon was involved.

Medical testing has revealed the embassy workers developed changes to the white matter tracts that let different parts of the brain communicate, several U.S. officials said, describing a growing consensus held by university and government physicians researching the attacks. White matter acts like information highways between brain cells...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...53ee10-da75-11e7-a241-0848315642d0_story.html

 

[dann]

Alien Attack? Mass Hysteria? Conspiracy?

I love that Washington Post article! Everybody who’s at all interested in the truth about this case should read it.

I notice in particular the reference to ”white matter” in William Parcher's quotation, but also this:

Most patients have fully recovered, some after rehabilitation and other treatment, officials said. Many are back at work. About one-quarter had symptoms that persisted for long periods or remain to this day.

That makes it so much easier for us to connect the dots:

1) As early as the second day of this thread, September 18, I mentioned ”that Alzheimer is much more frequent among people who suffer loss of hearing”. See also: Hearing Loss is Associated With Risk of Alzheimer’s Disease: A Case-Control Study in Older People

2) Cerebral White Matter Disease is Associated with Alzheimer Pathology in a Prospective Cohort

3) Most patients recovering fully is consistent with the course that outbreaks of mass psychogenic illness usually run:

Most of these outbreaks stop when people get away from the place where the illness started.
What Is Mass Psychogenic Illness? (American Family Physician website)

But apart from that, the US authorities have handled this case like true nincompoops. At least they have if the purpose had ever been to stop the outbreak instead of, what seems to have been and probably still is the case, causing an international diplomatic incident:

After experts check out the place where the outbreak started, they can reassure people that it is safe to go back to that place.
What Is Mass Psychogenic Illness? (American Family Physician website)

Minimize unnecessary exposure to medical procedures, emergency personnel, media or other potential anxiety-stimulating situations.
(…)
Remind patients that rumors and reports of "suspected causes" are not equivalent to confirmed results.
(…)
Some responses by authorities to MPI are not appropriate. Intense media coverage seems to exacerbate outbreaks. Once it is determined that the illness is psychogenic, it should not be given credence by authorities.
Mass psychogenic illness: Response to outbreaks (Wikipedia)

So we are now left with: Mass Hysteria! Conspiracy!
But two out of three ain't bad!