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Gratitude, Compulsion, Idiocy or Nobility?

bruto said:
Of course it's possible for someone to be wrong one time and right the other. But when you don't have another source for judgment, the judgement of the intermittently wrong is unreliable. Peta may be right about some things, but they have been shown to be unreliable (at best) in many instances. If Peta is the best link you can get you're in trouble.

And what does the euthanasia of Dolly the sheep have to do with anything at all? I never mentioned euthanasia in the post to which you are responding. I never suggested that I oppose or support euthanasia, or under what circumstances I might do one or the other. So don't put words in others' mouths. You linked to Peta but I don't know why, as their ideas of nature are suspect, and besides, I don't even think that the article linked to says what you think it says. It says that our primate ancestors evolved from carnivorous small animals into arboreal dwellers which forage for vegetation. That's at least more or less true, but what of it? It certainly does not say that carnivorous animals are unnatural, nor does it say (at least I hope it does not say) that those arboreal dwellers and their descendants are or were only vegetarian.

There's a good argument for making our diet more plant based, and for many other things, but it's a far far cry from that to the preposterous conclusion that moral personhood demands that we become raw vegans. Given the effect of human beings on the earth, if you wanted to make a truly global moral argument (mind you I don't and I know it's silly) one would do better to argue for people to keep their paws out of the natural world, eat nothing but cooked, fatty, hormone-drenched domesticated meat, and die young. Who is to say that the world would not be a happier place if human beings simply went extinct? Of course the news would not spread very well, but the idea that ideas are of any importance is a human one alone, and if one is going to be a simplistic fool, why not take it all the way?
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I meant, perception can make one, to take similar happening as right at one point but wrong at other point. Probably practiced much in this forum.

About Veg/Non-veg, I do not understand, if there is no moral/natural issue about non-veg why, some god name/words spoken on slagtering, why non-veg discouraged on some auspicious days, events & places, why occasional vegetarian festivals preferred, why slaughtering at special places, why pain management & mercy killing , why disparities in slaughtering etc.? In short, why specificity in non veg bot not in veg?
 
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Because people like making up rules, sometimes for good reasons, like specific slaughter houses, sometimes for stupid ones, like animals must suffer a violent death after a special man has whispered magic words in their ear
 
Filippo Lippi said:
Because people like making up rules, sometimes for good reasons, like specific slaughter houses, sometimes for stupid ones, like animals must suffer a violent death after a special man has whispered magic words in their ear
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Yes but slaughtering or killing is not choice of that who is got slaughtered/killed. Even not suicide but is compulsion. Some holy/magic words are also chanted at the time of slaughtering for food..(not sure all chant).

I think, many preferred practices in non-veg are bit different not open like veg, as if some odd/sin is committed. Why so, why not at par to veg?
 
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Kumar said:
I meant, perception can make one, to take similar happening as right at one point but wrong at other point. Probably practiced much in this forum.

About Veg/Non-veg, I do not understand, if there is no moral/natural issue about non-veg why, some god name/words spoken on slagtering, why non-veg discouraged on some auspicious days, events & places, why occasional vegetarian festivals preferred, why slaughtering at special places, why pain management & mercy killing , why disparities in slaughtering etc.? In short, why specificity in non veg bot not in veg?
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You're not the only one wrong, nor the only one making stuff up. Citing other nonsense to bolster your own does not help much. This is not to say that there are not, in my opinion, moral issues having to do with humane conduct. As to why specificity in non vegetarian issues but not in vegetarian, insofar as one can understand what you're saying, it would seem rather obvious to most of us at least that since vegetables are not animals, certain issues of humane slaughter and other actions simply don't apply. You of course may disagree, but there's a difference between a cat and a carrot. We simply don't need rules for the humane treatment of potatoes.
 
bruto said:
You're not the only one wrong, nor the only one making stuff up. Citing other nonsense to bolster your own does not help much. This is not to say that there are not, in my opinion, moral issues having to do with humane conduct. As to why specificity in non vegetarian issues but not in vegetarian, insofar as one can understand what you're saying, it would seem rather obvious to most of us at least that since vegetables are not animals, certain issues of humane slaughter and other actions simply don't apply. You of course may disagree, but there's a difference between a cat and a carrot. We simply don't need rules for the humane treatment of potatoes.
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Said truth.:thumbsup: Yes, there is a differance between cat and carrot or chiken and tomato and in human moral, need ànd luxuary. But all odds should be at some price which we should try to understand for self.
 
Kumar said:
Some holy/magic words are also chanted at the time of slaughtering for food.
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Only by people who believe that it is part of their religion that is natural to it with inharent sense of right and wrong, and mass existing since long.
 
Mojo said:
OK, why was she euthanised?
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By ignoring, Spontaneous Remissions, near to death, can also possible. Anita Moorjani Case. If we base rationals made by us, it may not be a wish of a killed animal. Life has more value than pain.If we can justify such rationals, PETA also expressed rationals.
 
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On the 20th anniversary of Dolly's birth, researchers reveal they are putting the four other animals cloned from the same cell line to sleep as there is 'no scientific merit' in keeping the nine year old sheep alive.
They have undergone a battery of tests and seem to be in relatively good health for their advanced age, scientists said.
The health of each of the animals was compared with a group of naturally bred six-year-old sheep living under similar conditions at the University.
Despite their advanced age the cloned sheep were showing no signs of diabetes, high blood pressure, or clinical degenerative-joint disease.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...four-clones-set-euthanized.html#ixzz4yIsRmY00
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Further to Dolly Sheep. Inspite of good health. ??
 
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Kumar said:
When there is no other choice, anything available has to be opted in compulsion.
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You are evading the issue: You have asked how we can use science if it is not "A&F". My point is that an incomplete map can still get you to your goal.

Science tells us a lot about reality, even if it does not tell us all.

And now, Kumar, I am tired of your "A&F" nonsense. It is a concept that has no place in a discussion about reality; this includes discussions about the reality of morals and religions. I shall therefore ignore any future post where you refer to it.

Hans
 
Kumar said:
I meant, perception can make one, to take similar happening as right at one point but wrong at other point. Probably practiced much in this forum.

About Veg/Non-veg, I do not understand, if there is no moral/natural issue about non-veg why, some god name/words spoken on slagtering, why non-veg discouraged on some auspicious days, events & places, why occasional vegetarian festivals preferred, why slaughtering at special places, why pain management & mercy killing , why disparities in slaughtering etc.? In short, why specificity in non veg bot not in veg?
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You are proposing to slaughter the vegetables? How will you be doing so humanely?
 
MRC_Hans said:
You are evading the issue: You have asked how we can use science if it is not "A&F". My point is that an incomplete map can still get you to your goal.

Science tells us a lot about reality, even if it does not tell us all.

And now, Kumar, I am tired of your "A&F" nonsense. It is a concept that has no place in a discussion about reality; this includes discussions about the reality of morals and religions. I shall therefore ignore any future post where you refer to it.

Hans
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Ok I shall take care. I shall expect simílar attide from you i.e to accept nón.....
 
Mojo said:
Only by people who believe that it is part of their religion that is natural to it with inharent sense of right and wrong, and mass existing since long.
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Could you please paraphrase that?

Hey! Wait a damn minute! What have you done with Mojo?
 
I'm tired of kumar's use of "odd" and of his even dumber "odds." What in the nine hells of buddhism does he mean by those words?

I don't expect him to tell me. Maybe he could whisper his explanation into the ear of a tomato

AND THEN SLAUGHTER IT!
 
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