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Cont: The Trump Presidency Part III

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Giordano said:
I think that many Trump supporters simply cannot be wooed by the Democrats by any legitimate means because of their racism or other extreme right-wing views. But I do think that a goodly percentage of Trump voters would be open to a populist approach if it was presented in a way that they would not have to admit that they were wrong to support Trump. Perhaps an argument such as,

"We understand your anger and frustration as you were being left behind in the economy. We understand your fears as what were solid jobs disappeared and your own financial situation became more and more marginal. We understand why you wanted to change the business-as-usual thinking in government that appeared to ignore you and your problems. We understand how Trump spoke to you on these issues and why you hoped he would be the one, the outsider who would help you. But sadly he lied, he betrayed you! You counted on him caring about you, but he turned out to be just another lying billionaire seeking to line his own pockets and the pockets of his wealthy friends. Rather than trying to solve your concerns he only cynically exploited them for his own benefit. You only have to look at what he's done in the last year to prove that to you.

The Democrats are the party who has historically done more for those who are not wealthy than the Republicans. We now, better than ever, understand your views, and this is what we are going to do if elected to prove that we are on your side..."
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Sadly IMO it'll be a case of tl;dl

The member of the electorate will say "Can you get me my well paid job with good benefits* back ?" and unless the answer is "Yes" then they will vote GOP - who will tell them what they want to hear.

* - The reason that job paid well and had good benefits was union representation, but they've also been convinced that unions are bad :(
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Still both simplistic and wrong.
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The majority of Trump voters think that white people face the most discrimination in the US.

It might be simplistic to call them all racist, but I fail to see how it is all that wrong. Or is it more subtle, and they are just stupid? Or ********?

Mind you, they were believing that white people faced the most discrimination while at the same time supporting Trump's ban on the immigration of any Muslims.
 
Giordano said:
I think that many Trump supporters simply cannot be wooed by the Democrats by any legitimate means because of their racism or other extreme right-wing views. But I do think that a goodly percentage of Trump voters would be open to a populist approach if it was presented in a way that they would not have to admit that they were wrong to support Trump. Perhaps an argument such as,

"We understand your anger and frustration as you were being left behind in the economy. We understand your fears as what were solid jobs disappeared and your own financial situation became more and more marginal. We understand why you wanted to change the business-as-usual thinking in government that appeared to ignore you and your problems. We understand how Trump spoke to you on these issues and why you hoped he would be the one, the outsider who would help you. But sadly he lied, he betrayed you! You counted on him caring about you, but he turned out to be just another lying billionaire seeking to line his own pockets and the pockets of his wealthy friends. Rather than trying to solve your concerns he only cynically exploited them for his own benefit. You only have to look at what he's done in the last year to prove that to you. "
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So you are saying that they can be placed in two baskets, one being the extreme right-wing and the racists (we'll call them "the disposables") and then there are the hard-working people who feel that government has not helped them?

Gee, maybe they should try that. Oh wait a minute, that is exactly what Clinton said.
 
Giordano said:
I think that many Trump supporters simply cannot be wooed by the Democrats by any legitimate means because of their racism or other extreme right-wing views. But I do think that a goodly percentage of Trump voters would be open to a populist approach if it was presented in a way that they would not have to admit that they were wrong to support Trump. Perhaps an argument such as,

"We understand your anger and frustration as you were being left behind in the economy. We understand your fears as what were solid jobs disappeared and your own financial situation became more and more marginal. We understand why you wanted to change the business-as-usual thinking in government that appeared to ignore you and your problems. We understand how Trump spoke to you on these issues and why you hoped he would be the one, the outsider who would help you. But sadly he lied, he betrayed you! You counted on him caring about you, but he turned out to be just another lying billionaire seeking to line his own pockets and the pockets of his wealthy friends. Rather than trying to solve your concerns he only cynically exploited them for his own benefit. You only have to look at what he's done in the last year to prove that to you.

The Democrats are the party who has historically done more for those who are not wealthy than the Republicans. We now, better than ever, understand your views, and this is what we are going to do if elected to prove that we are on your side..."
Click to expand...

Too many words. Condense it to 140 characters if you want it to have any effect.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Good article. It highlights the real, deep-running problem that makes people vote for Trump: racism.
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Still both simplistic and wrong.
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How exactly is it wrong?

There was plenty of evidence that Trump was a bigot from before and during the campaign. Yet people still voted for him. So that implies that people were either happy with his bigotry or comfortable enough that they would support him anyways.

Look at any of the excuses that people give for voting for Trump:
- Hillary was corrupt... yet Trump had more issues of corruption than Hillary ever did
- Hillary was lying... yet according to politifact Trump lied more than any other candidate in recent history
- Hillary was influenced by Wallstreet... yet Trump had no problem surrounding himself multiple wallstreet advisors
You can't even point to Trump's policies, since so much of what he said was either completely vacuous, or contradictory that there was no way to tell what exactly he actually stood for.

If someone is going to be so willfully ignorant and vote for Trump because they falsely think he's got more integrity and/or he will be somehow better, then there has to be a reason. So even if a person doesn't say "I wanted to vote for the bigoted white guy", they still did, despite it being against their best interest.
 
Segnosaur said:
How exactly is it wrong?
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It's not just that they are racist, or at the very least prejudiced against blacks and other minorities.

The biggest reason they voted for Trump is that they are a bunch of stupid ignorant suckers. They fell for the most obvious scam perpetrated by the most obvious scam artist there ever could be. Now they are so emotionally invested in their support of Trump, despite acknowledging that he hasn't (and likely won't) deliver the promised goods, that they basically feel compelled to continue supporting him.
 
Segnosaur said:
You can't even point to Trump's policies, since so much of what he said was either completely vacuous, or contradictory that there was no way to tell what exactly he actually stood for.
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The relatively few Trump voters I know in real life specifically cited his call for tougher enforcement of immigration laws and his opposition to free trade deals as reasons for supporting him. He's partially delivered on both of those. He's also appointing conservative judges (including one on the SCOTUS) which is an outcome many ordinary conservative voters have reason to be enthusiastic about.
 
Craig4 said:
Yeah Dems need to figure out what they're for. May become up with an economic development plan for the coal and Rustbelt states.
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The number 1 issue for Virginia voters was healthcare and they trusted Dems to handle it better by a 3 to 1 margin. Seems like a good place to start. Northam ran hard on it.
 
pgwenthold said:
So you are saying that they can be placed in two baskets, one being the extreme right-wing and the racists (we'll call them "the disposables") and then there are the hard-working people who feel that government has not helped them?

Gee, maybe they should try that. Oh wait a minute, that is exactly what Clinton said.
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Whatever Clinton said in reality was rapidly portrayed by her opponents as saying that all Trump supporters were extreme right wing, stupid, and/or racists. In essence, if you support Trump you are a dumb racist. This is not how one makes friends. and that is exactly the opposite of what I am suggesting. Appeal to the Trump supporters by telling them that they are hard-working people who feel that the government has not helped them. The ones among them (and I think it is a considerable percentage) who are not dumb racists might be persuaded to abandon Trump and his clones/enablers.
 
Giordano said:
"You good people, but Trump only claimed to want to help you. You were betrayed. Next time vote Democrat."
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"Trump lied, he's coming for your healthcare and giving the money to his cronies."
 
The Don said:
Am I gonna get my coal/steel/whatever job back ?
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Also and I suspect this si part of the Brexit issue too.

"Your life is rubbish once the coal and steel jobs went away, so why not vote leave and ruin someone else's too" They might have to do something for you.
 
Spindrift said:
No, not ever. That was part of the con and you swallowed it whole.
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Then you've just lost my vote forever because:

  • You say I can't have my job back
  • You pointed out that I was conned - in effect you're saying I'm stupid
  • You pointed out that I was conned - that makes me feel bad so I'm going to blame you
 
Arcade22 said:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...rump-johnstown-pennsylvania-supporters-215800

Deep down the know that they were scammed by Trump. They fell for his con and now they refuse to acknowledge, perhaps even to themselves, that they were played. Now they are apparently unconditionally supportive of him simply because to voice doubt would force them to own up to their mistake.

Buyers remorse at its finest.
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Every time I read about trump supporters like this, it makes me want to vomit.

Goddamn people are *********** stupid.
 
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