Proof of Immortality, VI

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js,
- I must have been!

...but you don't know, do you? What possible use is this immortality of yours if it has no observable effect?

You die and either (1) your soul gets scrubbed clean before reuse or (2) there was no soul in the first place. There is no way to distinguish the two because nothing carries over.

That is not immortality by anyone's meaning of the term, including yours.
 
...what's the likelihood that now happens to be within the hundred years that I might have?

Wrong question. The question is what makes that specific hundred-year timespan a legitimate "target" over all the other hundred-year periods. You're just committing the Texas sharpshooter fallacy all over again, this time with time periods instead of a specific incarnation. Your critics are rightly pointing out that the only reason you consider roughly 1940-2040 CE the interesting time span is that it is the century you know you inhabit. You're choosing the "target" century based on what you discovered after sampling the data. It's the same error you keep making over and over again.

My best guess at this point is that we all came from the same beginning consciousness, and were all one, then.

This is wild speculation. You're supposed to be providing a proof. We don't want your "guess." We want what you can prove happened or exists.
 
...but you don't know, do you? What possible use is this immortality of yours if it has no observable effect?

You die and either (1) your soul gets scrubbed clean before reuse or (2) there was no soul in the first place. There is no way to distinguish the two because nothing carries over.

That is not immortality by anyone's meaning of the term, including yours.

This!

What is the point in being re-incarnated if you don't actually retain anything across incarnations.
You might as well say, 'well one my my carbon atoms has been incorporated into another body after I died, therefore I am immortal'.
 
You’ve given up on souls, then?
No. You have demonstrated that souls cannot possibly exist and oddly, you fail to realise that you have done so.

Why? Beat seven shades out of me.

You have torpedoed your own argument. Can'y really bring myself to give a flying ****.

That is your archaic baloney with which to deal.
 
And we're back to the main problem with Jabba's... err theorom.

Even if we some how were to magically able take all of Jabba's "Throw as much nonsense against the wall hoping something will stick" mishmash of "evidence" and actually able to squeeze a coherent viable theory out of it and if even given that we could invoke a magic "I believe button" and agree with it all... it's still not immortality.

Everything that we could reasonably, or even sanely unreasonably, call death is still going to happen in this magical land of made up probabilities.

This is and always has been a "How many legs does a dog have if you call a tail a leg?" argument.

It's the same thing we see time and time again in the religious and other Woo apologetics. Redefining the thing in broader and loser terms again and again until you get to a "definition" that is so vague and meaningless as to be linguistically true without being true on any sane level, and pretend that someone how means something.

The only way for Jabba's immortality to work (even given all the massive conceits mentioned above required to even get there) is to redefine immortality to the point that doesn't mean that anything.

Nothing in this trainwreck, even if believed and taken at face value, would mean that Jabba, I, or any other Tom, Dick, or Harry in any real sense; the continuity of consciousness, the sense of self, the mental processing, anything that makes a "you" and "you" would keep going beyond a normal physical, biological lifespan.
 
It's the same thing we see time and time again in the religious and other Woo apologetics. Redefining the thing in broader and loser terms again and again until you get to a "definition" that is so vague and meaningless as to be linguistically true without being true on any sane level, and pretend that someone how means something.


That's why I have such trouble with people who define "God" as "the force that created the universe." Um, okay. I'll agree with you. So what? How does that even imply, let alone prove, that such a force is sentient, still exists today, or has moral rules we're supposed to follow?

It's the same error here. (Or, at least, one of the many.)
 
That's why I have such trouble with people who define "God" as "the force that created the universe." Um, okay. I'll agree with you. So what? How does that even imply, let alone prove, that such a force is sentient, still exists today, or has moral rules we're supposed to follow?

Heck the "Creator" definition is downright concise compared to "God is love" or "God is a feeling" definitions that are constantly getting trotted out.
 
No. You have demonstrated that souls cannot possibly exist and oddly, you fail to realise that you have done so.

Why? Beat seven shades out of me.

You have torpedoed your own argument. Can'y really bring myself to give a flying ****.

That is your archaic baloney with which to deal.
Oooo. Apologies zoot. That came out as pointing the finger at YOU when unintended.
 
This!

What is the point in being re-incarnated if you don't actually retain anything across incarnations.
You might as well say, 'well one my my carbon atoms has been incorporated into another body after I died, therefore I am immortal'.

This is not a meaningful argument.

Equivalent question to you: What is the point of being born just once, if you don't retain anything from a previous life, since there wasn't one?

There is no "point", utility has nothing to do with it, but there is a living "you", and that's something, and something is more than nothing.

I'm interested in seeing where Jabba goes with his new concept of immortality. So I'd like to see the noise reduced to a dull roar to give him room to run with it.

You don't need to worry about Jabba being able to prove there is an infinitely divisible consciousness that keeps splitting up. So no need to try to head him off at the pass.

I don't see what purpose the unprovable infinitely divisible consciousness serves. A brain comes into existence, and turns out to be "you". Just like actually happened. Except it keeps happening.

If one is going to postulate something unprovable, why not keep it simple.
 
This is not a meaningful argument.

Equivalent question to you: What is the point of being born just once, if you don't retain anything from a previous life, since there wasn't one?

There is no "point", utility has nothing to do with it, but there is a living "you", and that's something, and something is more than nothing....

I think you're are missing the 'point' ;)

What I am emphasizing is that if no memory or awareness moves from one body to another, then what really is 'immortal' about that. Saying I will live forever, but I just won't know it", well who cares. Of what use is immortality if one gets no benefit from it. The current 'you' experiences death and loss at the end of this life, then thats it. You never experience being re-born because you will never carry the memory that you died before.

So there is no 'point' or 'value' to it. Immortality becomes indistinguishable from non-immortatliy.
 
LL,

Re #1. Yeah. That is not the hyper-coincident regarding "right now". One hyper-coincident is that "now" happens to be 2017 (Gregorian) when time would seem to have existed for at least 14 billion years -- what's the likelihood that now happens to be within the hundred years that I might have?

What's the likelihood that the stone I just saw in the forest would be there "now" relative to 14 billion years of universal history? Wow, the stone must be immortal and sentient.

Oh wait, no. None of your arguments make any sense. Never mind.

Re #2. My best guess at this point is that we all came from the same beginning consciousness, and were all one, then.

Based on what? Stop pulling guesses out of your nether regions.
 
As with the shroud, Jabba is creating a massive, daunting thread he can point as proof that his nonsense is actually a hot topic of debate. What else explains his MO?
 
I think you're are missing the 'point' ;)

What I am emphasizing is that if no memory or awareness moves from one body to another, then what really is 'immortal' about that.

Well...I suppose consciousness would be what is immortal about that.

Saying I will live forever, but I just won't know it", well who cares. Of what use is immortality if one gets no benefit from it.

So? You don't know your future now. Does that make "now" useless?

Are you like, "Well, crap. I don't know what is going to happen next, and I've forgotten everything that happened when I was 3. This sucks, so I don't even care anymore."

The current 'you' experiences death and loss at the end of this life, then thats it. You never experience being re-born because you will never carry the memory that you died before.

I'm not particularly interested in carrying the memory that I died before. But I sympathize with your need to know that.

So there is no 'point' or 'value' to it. Immortality becomes indistinguishable from non-immortatliy.

Existence is indistinguishable from nonexistence?

Only if you're nonexistent.
 
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