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The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 26

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CoulsdonUK said:
Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox are known to a relatively small group of people who continue to follow Meredith Kerchers murder nothing much will change for them there are those who believe they were involved and those who will defend them, I believe most people either never cared or moved on many years ago. Rest in peace Meredith Kercher.
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There are those who simply explain the law as it should be applied in Italy according to fundamental Italian law - that is, the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure (CPP), the Italian Constitution, and the European Convention of Human Rights.

According to the recognized application of such fundamental law, there should have been no provisional convictions of Knox and Sollecito for the murder/rape of Kercher, nor a final conviction of Knox for her alleged calunnia of Lumumba. The courts that made those judgments operated contrary to the fundamental Italian law as of the relevant time, as pointed out by Bill Williams. They did not follow CPP 533, which states that a court may only find an accused guilty if guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. There were many procedural lapses in letting inadmissible alleged evidence into the trials, and violations of procedure in letting prior unjustified and unexamined court opinions from one trial - the abbreviated "fast-track" trial of Rudy Guede - into the regular trials of others - those of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.

Some of the above legal defects in the trials are spelled out in the Marasca CSC panel motivation report in the judgment finally and definitively acquitting Knox and Sollecito of the murder/rape of Kercher. Those defects, and the total lack of any objective credible evidence against Knox and Sollecito, are the reasons for their final and definitive acquittal of the crimes against Kercher.

There is, of course, no credible evidence whatsoever that Knox and Sollecito were secretly involved in the crimes against Kercher.

Those continuing to believe that Knox and Sollecito were somehow involved in the crimes against Kercher are, as bagels points out, not merely of a different opinion, but holding on to misinformation and failing to understand or appreciate the meaning or principle of the guarantee of "defense rights" and a "fair trial" as agreed to by Italy under the European Convention of Human Rights.

The crimes against Meredith Kercher, attributable to Rudy Guede based upon the objective credible evidence, remain another sad and horrific example of cruelty and inhumanity.

I hope Meredith Kercher's family and friends find comfort in their memories of her.
 
Bill Williams said:
By far, by far, as the 10th anniversary of the original evil act is noted, this is the most important consideration. By far.
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I agree very much. Unless some significant news arises about ECHR I hope I can again leave this site, or at least post less often. RIP Meredith Kercher
 
toto said:
I agree very much. Unless some significant news arises about ECHR I hope I can again leave this site, or at least post less often. RIP Meredith Kercher
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With Vixen apparently on 'holiday' here the site has gone from silly, repetitious discussion to peace and quiet. I think I prefer it this way, and agree, unless something significant comes up, like an ECHR ruling, there isn't much to discuss.

Out of morbid curiosity I checked what was going on at the two PGP sites. Seems Vixen joined dotnut a few weeks ago but hasn't posted much. Jackie continues his obsession with Bill Williams and Raffaele - very bizarre behavior. And Quennell continues his obsession with Amanda on both dotnut and his own site. The man is seriously troubled.. he must be thinking Amanda 24/7 to produce so much crap on such a consistent basis. Not sure how any of this honors Meredith's memory.

Hopefully on this 10th anniversary the Kercher family is finally finding some peace in the memories they share. RIP Meredith!
 
We can see what attention this case would have gotten if the police had investigated it properly and caught the killer without first rounding up and beating random students just by looking at similar cases in Italy. A blurb or two and then out of the new cycle after the first week, forever. Look up Ashley Olsen Florence for example.

People only know and care about Meredith because of Amanda. Amanda is everything. I think it's more important to remember that and stop pretending or deluding ourselves otherwise.
 
The PGP do not give a **** about Meredith. They only care about indulging their hatred for some random Seattle dork which is manipulated by the tabloids and an Italian prosecutor. If they actually cared what happened to Meredith they would be screaming from the rooftops why the still dripping wet semen stain next to her body wasn't tested. Why the confessed eyewitness to the crime was never moved to testify. Why crucial evidence was destroyed or missing. They do not care. At all. Not even a little bit.
 
bagels said:
We can see what attention this case would have gotten if the police had investigated it properly and caught the killer without first rounding up and beating random students just by looking at similar cases in Italy. A blurb or two and then out of the new cycle after the first week, forever. Look up Ashley Olsen Florence for example.

People only know and care about Meredith because of Amanda. Amanda is everything. I think it's more important to remember that and stop pretending or deluding ourselves otherwise.
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This is, of course, very true. Murders such as Meredith's are occurring hundreds of times a day around the world and 99.9999% of those victims remain entirely anonymous to us. It's only when the 'case' is unique, or the suspects are celebrity, do we hear about the victim. So in that regard, yes, it's ONLY because of Amanda (not Raffaele, which is why he is so routinely ignored) that we know of Meredith.

However, once a victim becomes entrenched in our hearts, for whatever reason, then it is still about the victim as well. Sure, the case fascinated me and I have a great many feelings for Amanda and Raffaele, but by following the case I allowed Meredith into my heart as well and I can assure you I have been thinking a lot about her and her family these past couple of days and it feels very personal.
 
TruthCalls said:
This is, of course, very true. Murders such as Meredith's are occurring hundreds of times a day around the world and 99.9999% of those victims remain entirely anonymous to us. It's only when the 'case' is unique, or the suspects are celebrity, do we hear about the victim. So in that regard, yes, it's ONLY because of Amanda (not Raffaele, which is why he is so routinely ignored) that we know of Meredith.

However, once a victim becomes entrenched in our hearts, for whatever reason, then it is still about the victim as well. Sure, the case fascinated me and I have a great many feelings for Amanda and Raffaele, but by following the case I allowed Meredith into my heart as well and I can assure you I have been thinking a lot about her and her family these past couple of days and it feels very personal.
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Well said. I, too, have been thinking of Meredith and her family the past few days.
 
bagels said:
The PGP do not give a **** about Meredith. They only care about indulging their hatred for some random Seattle dork which is manipulated by the tabloids and an Italian prosecutor. If they actually cared what happened to Meredith they would be screaming from the rooftops why the still dripping wet semen stain next to her body wasn't tested. Why the confessed eyewitness to the crime was never moved to testify. Why crucial evidence was destroyed or missing. They do not care. At all. Not even a little bit.
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I'm not sure I would make such a broad-brush statement but there is definitely much to your point that I agree with. The problem is even Meredith's family doesn't seem to see things as we do, and we know they do give a **** about Meredith. Why didn't they question the failure to test the semen stain. Why didn't they question the obvious, blatant forensic mistakes made in this case? Why weren't they focused on ensuring (or at least strongly objecting to) Guede was not given a path to a reduced sentence? If the Kercher's themselves were not concerned with these things (and maybe they were but we certainly never saw that in the media and you'd have to ask why not) then we can't really hold the PGP's feet to that fire.

However, it's really hard to believe someone like Quennell has a genuine concern for Meredith when you look at the obsessive, over-the-top, unrelated to the crime PR campaign he continues to wage against Amanda. This is a guy who didn't know Amanda or Meredith before the murder and now, ten years later, he seems to be obsessed with Amanda 24/7. This isn't about Meredith... this guy has a psychotic fascination with Amanda that I find deeply disturbing. His faux concern for Meredith is merely a facade to cover his obsession. Thankfully there are only a few PGP that I believe fit this description.
 
TruthCalls said:
I'm not sure I would make such a broad-brush statement but there is definitely much to your point that I agree with. The problem is even Meredith's family doesn't seem to see things as we do, and we know they do give a **** about Meredith. Why didn't they question the failure to test the semen stain. Why didn't they question the obvious, blatant forensic mistakes made in this case? Why weren't they focused on ensuring (or at least strongly objecting to) Guede was not given a path to a reduced sentence? If the Kercher's themselves were not concerned with these things (and maybe they were but we certainly never saw that in the media and you'd have to ask why not) then we can't really hold the PGP's feet to that fire.
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I think they have expressed concern with the Italian judicial system. They are subtle and tactful, but it's clear they're not happy with the system. The difference is I don't think they believe there was a mafia conspiracy to free their daughter's butcher for no reason. An individual genuinely interested in justice and the rule of law would be angry at the Italian judicial system. An individual that just wants to let their emotional hatred flow unchecked against the evil girl in the tabloid headlines would say she was working with the mafia to rig her freedom.

Also the PGP have less of an excuse. They aren't victims or random bystanders, they have immersed themselves in the details of this case. They believe Raffaele was a manga freak who wanted to experience "extreme sensations" and tore Meredith's bra off in a frenzied sex attack, but obviously he couldn't have ejaculated - that's PGP logic, or rather it's their defense mechanism because they know it's Rudy's and they know they have nowhere to go but downhill, because even people as deluded as them know on some level the case was crap.

However, it's really hard to believe someone like Quennell has a genuine concern for Meredith when you look at the obsessive, over-the-top, unrelated to the crime PR campaign he continues to wage against Amanda. This is a guy who didn't know Amanda or Meredith before the murder and now, ten years later, he seems to be obsessed with Amanda 24/7. This isn't about Meredith... this guy has a psychotic fascination with Amanda that I find deeply disturbing. His faux concern for Meredith is merely a facade to cover his obsession. Thankfully there are only a few PGP that I believe fit this description.
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I only know of two types of PGP, low-information tabloid readers (that I don't care about) and the obsessive types that know every iota of this case but somehow know nothing (these interest me), and that type is specifically obsessed with Amanda imo.
 
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Well..... personally I think it's waaaaaaaaaaaay more complex than this.

Regarding most of the more strident PGP, I think they long ago convinced themselves of three things: 1) Knox and Sollecito were involved in the Kercher murder; 2) vagaries (and, in their view, improper "pro-suspect" (haha) leanings) within the Italian criminal justice system "let Knox and Sollecito off the hook"; and 3) Knox and Sollecito employed all manner of underhand and despicable methods (including the infamous (and fatuously incorrect) "PR Supertanker", various Mafia-style connections, and the improper intervention of US authorities), to wriggle their way out of "True Justice (TM)".

I don't think these groups don't care about Kercher. On the contrary, I think they've become fixated upon "caring" about her. This, IMO, gives them the moral certitude to keep up their (in their heads) crusade against two people whom they view as, quite literally, having got away with murder. They think that Kercher, and the Kercher family, have been cheated out of justice.

And, IMO, their rampant confirmation bias manifests itself all over their approach to this case. I think they cannot allow themselves (in many instances coupled with huge intrinsic doses of ignorance of science and law) to view the evidence through anything other than the lens of guilt - and this absolutely shores up their "certainty" in the participation of Knox and Sollecito in the murder. And then they cannot allow themselves to view the many and varied attacks on the rank incompetence (and worse) of the police, prosecutors and lower courts in this case as anything other than either a) partisan agitation from individuals/groups with a vested interest in the acquittals of Knox and/or Sollecito, or b) stupid, ill-informed individuals who have allowed themselves to be manipulated by pro-Knox/Sollecito "forces".


Regarding the Kercher family, I think from their public statements (there's another one today....) that they probably do think Knox and Sollecito were involved. They were clearly assured by the likes of Maresca and Mignini that there was a cast-iron case for the Knox/Sollecito/Guede scenario. I think they probably still cannot understand the shocking systemic failings of the Italian system - failings which also result in one court determining that there were multiple attackers, and another court determining that Knox was at the cottage at the time of the murder (when both of those were deeply flawed rulings for differing reasons), and I think they are left with the legacy of ten years of trauma and massive contradictions, with them still being unable to gain proper closure as to who killed Meredith and how.

The Kerchers (and any close friends) I can have a huge deal of sympathy for. The majority of the other PGP I can have little but contempt for.
 
The Kerchers get a pass. They were lied to by their lawyer, Maresca, and for the first fours years had every reason to believe he was right.
 
Bill Williams said:
The Kerchers get a pass. They were lied to by their lawyer, Maresca, and for the first fours years had every reason to believe he was right.
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I don't agree with this, Bill. 6 years have passed since those 1st 4. The Kerchers could have done their own exploration into the facts of the case - they didn't have to take Maresca's word for everything. That was a choice. I read today's Daily Mail article and to me it's very obvious they are still convinced Knox and Sollecito participated in Meredith's murder. And they show no interest whatsoever in looking outside the box to challenge that belief system. It's as if scapegoating Knox & Sollecito is something that gives them satisfaction.

It's always been very troubling to me that the Kerchers have shown so little interest in Guede and the relative leniency granted him. Maybe his choice of the fast-track trial made his sentence length inevitable but I still find it very curious that the Kerchers have expressed little if any outrage about it. When he did that ridiculous from-prison interview on Italian TV in early '16, you heard not a peep from the Kerchers...amazing given his statements about writing in Meredith's blood, not having condoms and other despicable comments. All you heard was a feeble "no, no, mustn't do that" from Maresca. The Kerchers themselves were completely silent. But then Stephanie had no problem criticizing Knox's and Sollecito's participation in the Netflix documentary all the while admitting she hadn't even watched it.

Most troubling of all to me is that I don't recall the Kerchers publicly questioning why Guede has never directly testified against Knox & Sollecito. The one person who admits to being present at the cottage when Meredith was murdered, claims to be innocent, and yet somehow is never used by the proscecution to help convict the others. Maybe Guede coudn't be forced to testify against them but it is still curious to me that the Kerchers so seemingly took that in stride!
 
Amanda is correct that, no matter what she says or doesn't say today, she will be criticized. Some comments left prove that.
 
AnimalFriendly said:
And they show no interest whatsoever in looking outside the box to challenge that belief system. It's as if scapegoating Knox & Sollecito is something that gives them satisfaction.
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C'mon, no one can possibly know this. Add to this that no one - no one - would have wanted to trade places with the Kerchers, much less us way up in the bleachers.
 
I abhor the way so many PGP criticize and vilify the families of Knox and Sollecito. I also do not agree with anyone criticizing the Kerchers. No one knows the hell these families have been through or what they feel unless they have had a loved one murdered or accused of murder. Unless you have been in one of those two situations, it is the height of arrogance to pass judgment on them.
 
Stacyhs said:
I abhor the way so many PGP criticize and vilify the families of Knox and Sollecito. I also do not agree with anyone criticizing the Kerchers. No one knows the hell these families have been through or what they feel unless they have had a loved one murdered or accused of murder. Unless you have been in one of those two situations, it is the height of arrogance to pass judgment on them.
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I understand Stacyhs. Overall, I have no interest in criticizing the Kerchers. But I do believe they should realize the obvious truth that Rudy killed their daughter and Amanda and Raffaele had nothing to do with their daughter's death.
 
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acbytesla said:
I understand Stacyhs. Overall, I have no interest in criticizing the Kerchers. But I do believe they should realize the obvious truth that Rudy killed their daughter and Amanda and Raffaele had nothing to do with their daughter's death.
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Why "should" they? It may be obvious to us but Meredith was not our daughter or sister. We can look at the case more objectively. Place yourself in their shoes. They were told from the beginning by the police, the prosecutor and their lawyer that AK and RS killed MK. The evidence, at the time, seemed to strongly support that. The British media and public opinion supported that. The first trial concluded guilt. The third trial concluded guilt. Other courts ruled that multiple people were involved (however flimsy was their reasoning). Families have a very difficult time believing that defendants were wrongly convicted. There psychological/emotional reasons for this. It's not usual. I doubt the Kerchers will ever believe AK and RS are innocent.
 
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