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A Humbling Journey: Theism to Atheism...

I think we have to be a bit careful with this. I'd warrant that outside of some particularly obsessive communities in the US, there would be very few christians who would actually believe that the dates they celebrate were the actual dates of the events they are supposed to be celebrating.

Yet I suspect that the average Christian will still advocate "Jesus is the reason for the season".

I was once bashed for using "pseudo science" just for providing historical references that clearly illustrate Christmas and Easter where originally pre-existing non Christian celebrations...
 
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That's it exactly.

I thought they were stories that grownups told to kids. Like Santa, or the Itsy Bitsy Spider or the Ugly Duckling or the tooth fairy. The other super stupid one was Jonah and the whale. These stories are a major insult to people's intelligence when they are insisted to be real.


If I understand correctly, the Catholic Church now accepts evolution. Isn't this the case? We are being told that the seven days of creation doesn't really mean seven actual days.

There are Christians who now tell us that the 'Adam and Eve' story is just allegorical. More and more it seems we are being told that much of what's in the bible isn't meant to be taking literally.

How do modern day believers reconcile this with the bible supposedly being the "infallible word of god"?

All of this sort of thing just further erodes the credibility of Christianity yet the Atheist is continuously vilified for claiming that none of it is credible...
 
If I understand correctly, the Catholic Church now accepts evolution. Isn't this the case? We are being told that the seven days of creation doesn't really mean seven actual days.

There are Christians who now tell us that the 'Adam and Eve' story is just allegorical. More and more it seems we are being told that much of what's in the bible isn't meant to be taking literally.

How do modern day believers reconcile this with the bible supposedly being the "infallible word of god"?

All of this sort of thing just further erodes the credibility of Christianity yet the Atheist is continuously vilified for claiming that none of it is credible...

Because most Christians do not believe that the entire Bible is the infallible word of God. In fact you say so right in your own post.
 
Because most Christians do not believe that the entire Bible is the infallible word of God.

Does anybody here have any reference or evidence for a prominent Christian leader, pastor or evangelical who emphatically and clearly states that the Christian bible is NOT the "infallible word of god" and it is not to be considered as such?

I'm now genuinely and sincerely curious about this. I'd really like to hear it directly from the horse's mouth in no uncertain terms...
 
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Okay, I think I've got it now.

Believing in Zombies= Not Crazy

Believing Jesus lives next door= Nutters

Thanks for clearing that up. It might be a little awkward though when during the second coming JC actually does end up as your neighbor. I'm just guessing that he's gonna need to crash somewhere...
Realistically, as described in the babble, jebus was a permanent couch surfer. So no, he will not be your neighbour, he will be a house guest you cannot shake loose.
 
Does anybody here have any reference or evidence for a prominent Christian leader, pastor or evangelical who emphatically and clearly states that the Christian bible is NOT the "infallible word of god" and it is not to be considered as such?

I'm now genuinely and sincerely curious about this. I'd really like to hear it directly from the horse's mouth in no uncertain terms...

Well, first I said the entire Bible is not the infallible word of God

Second, you just acknowledged that very fact in your previous post.
 
Does anybody here have any reference or evidence for a prominent Christian leader, pastor or evangelical who emphatically and clearly states that the Christian bible is NOT the "infallible word of god" and it is not to be considered as such?

St. Augustine of Hippo?
 
Or what about The Archbishop Of Canterbury?

I would say that if you believe that all or even most Christians believe in Biblical literalism, then you have a very limited view of Christianity. I was actually looking for something else after I wrote that last sentence when I found this article, which has a lot relevant to say:

[...]just 16% of believers accept the creation myth – according to which, in the words of the questionnaire, “humans and other living things were created by God and have always existed in their current form”. Only 9% of all Britons reject evolutionary theory.

[...]

According to the British Attitudes Survey, religious belief is continuing to decline in Britain, but the former archbishop of Canterbury, Lord (Rowan) Williams, says the YouGov survey confirms that a presumed incompatibility between science and religion is “a phoney war”.

“The number of mainstream Christians – certainly in this country – who have qualms about evolutionary theory is very small indeed,” said Williams. “But perceptions are different, and the presence of US-style fundamentalism in the popular imagination means that a growing number who know nothing of the actual history of intellectual discussion of these questions assume that all religious believers must be committed to combating scientific accounts of the universe’s beginnings.”

[...]

Guy Hayward, research fellow at SMN, said: “It is clear from this survey by Newman University that non-believers have very little idea about what believers believe. They seem to be responding to a caricature based on American creationists, rather than reality. Even in America, creationist beliefs in the literal truth of Genesis are not shared by most mainstream Christians. In fact, many scientists have religious or spiritual beliefs and do not see these as conflicting with science.”
 
Maher says the same thing at the end of his 'Religulous' documentary. But I do not at all blame Atheists for staying in closet.

I see the vile hatred spewed against Atheists on other forums and that too is unsettling. Atheism is simply the acknowledgement of reality. To be so hated and despised just for something like that is very disconcerting...

I don't blame them. But nevertheless it is our silence that the believers are counting on. They feel they have an overwhelming majority and are free to create a coercive environment. The last thing they want is for society to say the emperor is naked. Contrary to the story, one person is not enough.
 
If I understand correctly, the Catholic Church now accepts evolution. Isn't this the case? We are being told that the seven days of creation doesn't really mean seven actual days.

There are Christians who now tell us that the 'Adam and Eve' story is just allegorical. More and more it seems we are being told that much of what's in the bible isn't meant to be taking literally.

How do modern day believers reconcile this with the bible supposedly being the "infallible word of god"?

All of this sort of thing just further erodes the credibility of Christianity yet the Atheist is continuously vilified for claiming that none of it is credible...

There's so much in this post which people living in the UK simply wouldn't recognise. Atheists aren't vilified here (we're in the majority, and religion is invisible here). I'll bet the number of biblical literalists in the entire country could be counted on the fingers and toes of my immediate family.

And nobody I have ever heard has claimed that JC was actually born on christmas day. As I said previously, I don't think there is any such equivalent claim in existence for easter, being as it is a moveable feast.
 
Realistically, as described in the babble, jebus was a permanent couch surfer. So no, he will not be your neighbour, he will be a house guest you cannot shake loose.

Well I certainly wouldn't allow Him to stay with me! Do you know that that guy lives and acts like he was born in a barn???
 
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Well, first I said the entire Bible is not the infallible word of God

Second, you just acknowledged that very fact in your previous post.

What I'm looking for is prominent, notable clergy (preferably contemporaries) who will openly, publicly and clearly declare what you're telling me "most" Christians have already acknowledged. What we're being told is that we must learn to properly 'interpret' what the bible is supposedly telling us. They're saying that the Bible isn't wrong, it just means something other than what it exactly says.

IMO that explanation or rationale would be completely rejected as absolute B.S. with any other issue other than religion...
 
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Or what about The Archbishop Of Canterbury?

I would say that if you believe that all or even most Christians believe in Biblical literalism, then you have a very limited view of Christianity. I was actually looking for something else after I wrote that last sentence when I found this article, which has a lot relevant to say:

What I'm looking for is prominent clergy (preferably contemporaries) who will openly and publicly declare what you're telling me "most" Christians have already acknowledged...

The above posts by Squeegee do just that. Heck your original post does that.
 
There's so much in this post which people living in the UK simply wouldn't recognise. Atheists aren't vilified here (we're in the majority, and religion is invisible here).

That's interesting.

On another forum the most vile, obnoxious and profanity laced replies I received for my Atheist stance came from a fella in England. Maybe I just engage with the wrong sort of people...
 
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What I'm looking for is prominent, notable clergy (preferably contemporaries) who will openly, publicly and clearly declare what you're telling me "most" Christians have already acknowledged. What we're being told is that we must learn to properly 'interpret' what the bible is supposedly telling us. They're saying that the Bible isn't wrong, it just means something other than what it exactly says.

IMO that explanation or rationale would be completely rejected as absolute B.S. with any other issue other than religion...

I like that the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury and St. Augustine of Hippo don't count as "prominent, notable clergy".
 
I read that link. Perhaps I missed the part where the Archbishop clearly states that the Bible is WRONG...

That's what's called "moving the goalposts". I provided you exactly what you asked for. Having done so, you are now pretending that you asked for something different.

You claim you want rationality and you look down on those whose opinions on religion you consider to be irrational, yet you ignore clear, unambiguous evidence that some of your assumptions about all Christians are wrong because you'd prefer to believe that they're true. Do you not see any hypocrisy in that?
 
I read that link. Perhaps I missed the part where the Archbishop clearly states that the Bible is WRONG...

sigh... you never made that claim before. You specifically referenced Catholic view on evolution, and that adam and eve was allegorical, and now you are pretending to ask whether this makes the Bible wrong?

Do you not understand what allegorical means?

smfh
 

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