Cont: The Trump Presidency Part III

[The Great Zaganza]

I need to keep up? You're the one making false claims in 24 point font. I suppose it's more interesting than a laughing dog or a crazy face emoticon.

FACTS:

During the Republican presidential primary, an unknown Republican “client” funded Fusion GPS to conduct opposition research on Trump, The Washington Post reports. Trump at that time was still seeking the Republican nomination for the 2016 presidential election.

That client cut off funds to Fusion GPS as the primary winded down, and the Clinton campaign hired the firm through its lawyer Mike Elias in April 2016. The DNC and Clinton campaign continued funding the project until October 2016.

as I said, a perfectly routine process.

 

[sunmaster14]

FACTS:

During the Republican presidential primary, an unknown Republican “client” funded Fusion GPS to conduct opposition research on Trump, The Washington Post reports. Trump at that time was still seeking the Republican nomination for the 2016 presidential election.

That client cut off funds to Fusion GPS as the primary winded down, and the Clinton campaign hired the firm through its lawyer Mike Elias in April 2016. The DNC and Clinton campaign continued funding the project until October 2016.

as I said, a perfectly routine process.

First, it wasn't an unknown Republican client. It was the Washington Free Beacon website, and here is their statement (my emphasis added):

Since its launch in February of 2012, the Washington Free Beacon has retained third party firms to conduct research on many individuals and institutions of interest to us and our readers. In that capacity, during the 2016 election cycle we retained Fusion GPS to provide research on multiple candidates in the Republican presidential primary, just as we retained other firms to assist in our research into Hillary Clinton. All of the work that Fusion GPS provided to the Free Beacon was based on public sources, and none of the work product that the Free Beacon received appears in the Steele dossier. The Free Beacon had no knowledge of or connection to the Steele dossier, did not pay for the dossier, and never had contact with, knowledge of, or provided payment for any work performed by Christopher Steele. Nor did we have any knowledge of the relationship between Fusion GPS and the Democratic National Committee, Perkins Coie, and the Clinton campaign.

 

[NoahFence]

I need to keep up? You're the one making false claims in 24 point font. I suppose it's more interesting than a laughing dog or a crazy face emoticon.

So the report we heard yesterday about the conservative rag paying for the dossier is false?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

First, it wasn't an unknown Republican client. It was the Washington Free Beacon website

errr..

you know that a Republican organization hired Fusion GPS to conduct research on Trump, but they have nothing to do with the result?
I hope your spine is ok because you must have bent over backwards to come to that conclusion.

 

[Sideroxylon]

The wanker is golfing again. I remember someone bitching aboiut Obama playing golf and say if they were president there would be no time for such things.

 

[sunmaster14]

Is there any evidence Russians were paid?

That's how the business works. It's kind of like asking if your general contractor pays its subcontractors, or if the subcontractors pay their suppliers. Information is usually worth money. I suppose it's possible that Steele fabricated all of the information and pocketed the money himself.

I was going planning to do an analysis of the disbursements by the Hillary campaign to Perkins Coie and see if there is a perceptible kink in April 2016, indicating the level of payments made to Fusion GPS for their research. We'll find out the size of these payments eventually I suspect.

 

[sunmaster14]

So the report we heard yesterday about the conservative rag paying for the dossier is false?

I didn't hear such a report. If you did, then yes, the report you heard was false. More likely, you simply misinterpreted it, though. I did notice that rags like the New York Times wrote rather ambiguous headlines to fool the easily fooled.

 

[Jim_MDP]

Just out of curiosity... can someone link me to the actual dossier?

Late last night I found a "Clinton Dossier" PDF, though I haven't read it yet.
IIRC... it's images of ~38 typed pages... lots of"Confidential" etc. footers in large bold type.

Is that the "Steele Dossier"?

I did a search for Steele in thread titles, but no joy on a link to the document.

 

[Stacko]

Just out of curiosity... can someone link me to the actual dossier?

Late last night I found a "Clinton Dossier" PDF, though I haven't read it yet.
IIRC... it's images of ~38 typed pages... lots of"Confidential" etc. footers in large bold type.

Is that the "Steele Dossier"?

I did a search for Steele in thread titles, but no joy on a link to the document.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensing...es-to-russia?utm_term=.eaR6z9EjEz#.nhzr1J9o91

 

[sunmaster14]

Just out of curiosity... can someone link me to the actual dossier?

Late last night I found a "Clinton Dossier" PDF, though I haven't read it yet.
IIRC... it's images of ~38 typed pages... lots of"Confidential" etc. footers in large bold type.

Is that the "Steele Dossier"?

Yes. It is 35 pages long, and it has various items highlighted in yellow. I'm pretty sure you have it.

 

[NoahFence]

I didn't hear such a report. If you did, then yes, the report you heard was false. More likely, you simply misinterpreted it, though. I did notice that rags like the New York Times wrote rather ambiguous headlines to fool the easily fooled.

Sad!

 

[sunmaster14]

errr..

you know that a Republican organization hired Fusion GPS to conduct research on Trump, but they have nothing to do with the result?
I hope your spine is ok because you must have bent over backwards to come to that conclusion.

Steele was not hired by Fusion GPS until after the Democrats hired Fusion GPS (and the Free Beacon terminated their engagement). Steele was fully responsible for the dossier, which is 100% about Trump's connections to Russia. Steele is the only researcher for Fusion GPS who has been publicly revealed as having extensive sources in Russia. All of the information provided to the Free Beacon by Fusion GPS was already in the public domain (according to the Free Beacon). None of the information in the dossier was ever provided to the Free Beacon by Fusion GPS (once again, according to the Free Beacon).

At this point, if you persist in your claims, I can only attribute it to willful ignorance.

 

[BobTheCoward]

That's how the business works. It's kind of like asking if your general contractor pays its subcontractors, or if the subcontractors pay their suppliers. Information is usually worth money. I suppose it's possible that Steele fabricated all of the information and pocketed the money himself.

I was going planning to do an analysis of the disbursements by the Hillary campaign to Perkins Coie and see if there is a perceptible kink in April 2016, indicating the level of payments made to Fusion GPS for their research. We'll find out the size of these payments eventually I suspect.

So, no evidence Steele paid for information instead of just asked for it.

 

[sunmaster14]

So, no evidence Steele paid for information instead of just asked for it.

I've noticed that you don't really understand what evidence is. Evidence is any piece of knowledge which, if and when obtained, would increase the posteriori Bayesian probability of a claim being over the a priori Bayesian probability of the same claim being true. The very admission by Steele in his dossier that he has over half a dozen different sources high up in the Russian government is evidence that he has paid them.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I've noticed that you don't really understand what evidence is. Evidence is any piece of knowledge which, if and when obtained, would increase the posteriori Bayesian probability of a claim being over the a priori Bayesian probability of the same claim being true. The very admission by Steele in his dossier that he has over half a dozen different sources high up in the Russian government is evidence that he has paid them.

Their existence is not evidence of the manner in which he acquired them. It isn't made more likely than any other a priori explanation for how they we're acquired.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Ok, my only condition is that if I lose I get to pay by sending you an Amazon gift code for $100. Is that ok? More anonymous that way.

That's fine with me, if you're also taking my bet.

 

[sunmaster14]

Their existence is not evidence of the manner in which he acquired them. It isn't made more likely than any other a priori explanation for how they we're acquired.

The claim is that Steele paid Russian government officials for information. That claim is made more likely by the fact that Steele's dossier is replete with information that he claims was sourced from Russian government officials.

If I claim that you paid Stop & Shop supermarket for milk recently, is that claim made more credible if I open your refrigerator and find Stop & Shop brand milk there? Is the fact that Stop & Shop brand milk is currently in your refrigerator evidence that you paid Stop & Shop recently?

 

[sunmaster14]

That's fine with me, if you're also taking my bet.

Done. Same terms as the bet with Oystein.

 

[ChristianProgressive]

I don't know if your case is applicable, but I certainly think there was a reckless disregard for the truth here. The Trump dossier is completely baseless.

And all of the confirmations of various aspects of it?

 

[BobTheCoward]

The claim is that Steele paid Russian government officials for information. That claim is made more likely by the fact that Steele's dossier is replete with information that he claims was sourced from Russian government officials.

If I claim that you paid Stop & Shop supermarket for milk recently, is that claim made more credible if I open your refrigerator and find Stop & Shop brand milk there? Is the fact that Stop & Shop brand milk is currently in your refrigerator evidence that you paid Stop & Shop recently?

It is also equal evidence that I stole it, exchanged sex for milk,used a teleporter, or was gifted it by the store owner. There are many explanations for how it got there. I'm asking for evidence that actually narrows down the list.