Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[Scorpion]

If we came from him why aren't we already perfect? You are saying god isn't perfect.

We are completely untried and untested when our spirit is created. We make choices for ourselves and fall from grace. Then begins the long journey of the cycle of rebirths until reaching an enlightened state where we stop reincarnating, and go on progressing as immortal spirits in higher reams.

God remains perfect above suffering, and the spirit world take the longer view of eternal values. They do not see our experiences in the same way we see them, they see the eternal benefit of all experience.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

I once asked if animals evolve to become humans. The spirit guide said no, animals evolve in their own right.

How does that square up with every mind being a similar divine emanation working its way back to unity with God?
How can animals have a reincarnating spirit that develops through its many lives, just like people, yet at the same time not reach a human-like level on their way to godhood? Do they skip that? Are there entire species of animal with human-level minds we just never encounter? What are human spirits incarnated as before they reach the lowest human level? How are there completely separate cycles for people and animals with the exact same end result if every spirit has the same source?

This just sounds like an easy cop out to avoid having to discuss the moral treatment of animals...
One that raises more questions than it answers.

 

[Scorpion]

Really? OK, let's do some number crunching.

In total, 120 billion humans is the most that have ever existed over time.

You claim each spirit incarnates 1,000 times. Some may be at the beginning, some at the end, so let's say on average 500 incarnations done.

Thus there are 240 million spirits at most.

So why are there 7 billion of us right now?

see post 1190 where I said the following.

According to what I have heard from spirit guides there are a vast number of spirits, many are incarnate on other planets, but there are far greater numbers in higher planes of existence.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

IIRC, the lottery story is that he already had the ticket and just before the draw a voice told him what the numbers would be. The voice was right, and he matched 5 of them.

 

[Scorpion]

How does that square up with every mind being a similar divine emanation working its way back to unity with God?
How can animals have a reincarnating spirit that develops through its many lives, just like people, yet at the same time not reach a human-like level on their way to godhood? Do they skip that? Are there entire species of animal with human-level minds we just never encounter? What are human spirits incarnated as before they reach the lowest human level? How are there completely separate cycles for people and animals with the exact same end result if every spirit has the same source?

This just sounds like an easy cop out to avoid having to discuss the moral treatment of animals...
One that raises more questions than it answers.

I am just telling you what the medium, or her spirit guide said. She said animals evolve to perfection as separate species and they do not become human. Some of the lower animals have a group soul and not individual souls. Nor do humans incarnate as animals. The Hindus are wrong about that.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Really? OK, let's do some number crunching.

In total, 120 billion humans is the most that have ever existed over time.

You claim each spirit incarnates 1,000 times. Some may be at the beginning, some at the end, so let's say on average 500 incarnations done.

Thus there are 240 million spirits at most.

So why are there 7 billion of us right now?

Thetans?

 

[Andy_Ross]

We are completely untried and untested when our spirit is created. We make choices for ourselves and fall from grace. Then begins the long journey of the cycle of rebirths until reaching an enlightened state where we stop reincarnating, and go on progressing as immortal spirits in higher reams.

God remains perfect above suffering, and the spirit world take the longer view of eternal values. They do not see our experiences in the same way we see them, they see the eternal benefit of all experience.

Once again very convenient.

 

[Zivan]

I don't attend spiritualist churches any more, but if I did and a medium gave me a message I would ask questions if I could.

Sometimes after a trance lecture members of the audience are allowed to ask questions, and I once asked if animals evolve to become humans. The spirit guide said no, animals evolve in their own right.
But asking questions of spirit guides is a rare event even if you attend lectures, and also you cannot ask questions unrelated to the lecture.

So those claiming to be "mediums"/"spirit guides" do not allow cross examination.

But you would cross examine someone claiming to be God before you would believe that person.

Why have a different standard for your belief in mediums/spirit guides?

 

[Scorpion]

Why have a different standard for your belief in mediums/spirit guides?

Its a matter of finding the opportunity to ask a trance medium questions you are interested in. It doesn't happen unless you attend regular meetings.
If I paid a medium for a private sitting, I would definitely question them.

 

[abaddon]

see post 1190 where I said the following.

According to what I have heard from spirit guides there are a vast number of spirits, many are incarnate on other planets, but there are far greater numbers in higher planes of existence.

Nope. That is what the medium CLAIMS the spirit guide said. There is a difference.


ETA: And it matters not a whit how many are in "higher planes". They are not the ones incarnating, are they?

 

[abaddon]

Its a matter of finding the opportunity to ask a trance medium questions you are interested in. It doesn't happen unless you attend regular meetings.
If I paid a medium for a private sitting, I would definitely question them.

What difference does that make? You don't pay, therefore the medium should not be questioned?

 

[Scorpion]

What difference does that make? You don't pay, therefore the medium should not be questioned?

Its a matter of opportunity. If you attend a public meeting there will be a queue of people wanting to ask questions and you may not get a chance.

I have rarely ever paid for a private sitting, but in a one to one situation I would expect to be able to ask questions, and get my moneys worth.

 

[abaddon]

Its a matter of opportunity. If you attend a public meeting there will be a queue of people wanting to ask questions and you may not get a chance.

I have rarely ever paid for a private sitting, but in a one to one situation I would expect to be able to ask questions, and get my moneys worth.

Sorry. I don't buy that.

Up thread you claimed that your friend performs as a medium for free. Yet you cannot get a private sitting with him and ask questions.

Bollocks.

 

[Darat]

I don't attend spiritualist churches any more, but if I did and a medium gave me a message I would ask questions if I could.

Sometimes after a trance lecture members of the audience are allowed to ask questions, and I once asked if animals evolve to become humans. The spirit guide said no, animals evolve in their own right.
But asking questions of spirit guides is a rare event even if you attend lectures, and also you cannot ask questions unrelated to the lecture.

How would a medium be able to tell you such answers after they came out of their trance...

 

[Darat]

We are completely untried and untested when our spirit is created. We make choices for ourselves and fall from grace. Then begins the long journey of the cycle of rebirths until reaching an enlightened state where we stop reincarnating, and go on progressing as immortal spirits in higher reams.

God remains perfect above suffering, and the spirit world take the longer view of eternal values. They do not see our experiences in the same way we see them, they see the eternal benefit of all experience.

Yep just another variant on the barbaric gods humans have been creating for thousands of years.

 

[Scorpion]

Sorry. I don't buy that.

Up thread you claimed that your friend performs as a medium for free. Yet you cannot get a private sitting with him and ask questions.

Bollocks.

I have not seen Trevor Williams since the 1970's. I believe he still works as a medium because he came to a local church a few years ago and I saw the advertisement, but I did not speak to him.

 

[Scorpion]

How would a medium be able to tell you such answers after they came out of their trance...

Normally mediums claim not to remember what they said when in a trance.

The medium I asked a question was still in a trance, so in theory I was
speaking to the spirit guide.

 

[Darat]

We are completely untried and untested when our spirit is created. We make choices for ourselves and fall from grace. Then begins the long journey of the cycle of rebirths until reaching an enlightened state where we stop reincarnating, and go on progressing as immortal spirits in higher reams.

God remains perfect above suffering, and the spirit world take the longer view of eternal values. They do not see our experiences in the same way we see them, they see the eternal benefit of all experience.

That must be a great comfort to those women who have been repeatedly raped by the solders, or to the greiving parents of a child that cannot live beyond a few years, or for the millions facing brutal deaths in concentration camps.

Your god smiles down on all of that and proclaims "This is good".

Your beliefs are cruel, horrendous and utterly lacking compassion.

 

[Scorpion]

I just googled Trevor and found phone numbers for him. I do not know if these numbers are current but if you want a private sitting and you live in England you can ring him.

Telephone Trevor Williams 01322 864116 or 07810 656556.on Sunday

 

[Darat]

Normally mediums claim not to remember what they said when in a trance.

The medium I asked a question was still in a trance, so in theory I was
speaking to the spirit guide.

Perhaps you wish to go back and check what you actually said?

You've just provided a prime example of the fallibility of your memory and recollections.

Let me help you:

Sometimes after a trance lecture members of the audience are allowed to ask questions, and I once asked if animals evolve to become humans​

Does this example not make you think even for moment that what you remember may not be accurate?