The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 26

[LondonJohn]

<fx tap tap tap> No-one settles if they are in the right. People settle when they are in the wrong.

Who settled, exactly? And what's your (credible, reliable, documented) evidence to support any such claim? Thanks in advance.

 

[Stacyhs]

<fx tap tap tap> No-one settles if they are in the right. People settle when they are in the wrong.

But there is no evidence that Gumbel settled anything.

Oh, and by the way "No-one settles if they are in the right. People settle when they are in the wrong," is not true. There are many reasons innocent people settle out of court. Money, stress, finality are among those.

 

[bagels]

Although there's no evidence, not really, of a direct link between the two, it is amazing how quickly Quennell simply parrot's talking points beneficial to Mignini's position on things.

Indeed, reading Mignini's "case against Maori for defamation" all the talking points Vixen cites as factual are there (and few other places, if any).

Those of us on this side of the fence would dance with glee if a Mignini-Quennell link was proven. How sad would that be?

The only entity willing to undertake Mignini's theories is an **English language** one run by a nutcase.

The hero worship of Mignini by the PGP is pretty funny when you consider that his only contributions to this case are not getting the only proven eyewitness to the entire crime to testify, and losing.

 

[Vixen]

Who settled, exactly? And what's your (credible, reliable, documented) evidence to support any such claim? Thanks in advance.

Hello? Gumbel and Sollecito settled. They have agreed to issue an apology. In the publishing world, this is a euphemism for 'pay damages' and retract the calumny.

Sollectio has boobed again by telling the newspapers he's won, when he has not. Alfredo Brizioli, Sollecito's maverick loose cannon lawyer has dropped a bollock spectacularly, and why are we not surprised? Bongiorno has had a sickener of his antics and refused to represent him.

 

[Vixen]

But there is no evidence that Gumbel settled anything.

Oh, and by the way "No-one settles if they are in the right. People settle when they are in the wrong," is not true. There are many reasons innocent people settle out of court. Money, stress, finality are among those.

We were not talking about why people settle we were talking about occasions when it is black and white you have broken the law and will be found to have done so. Your lawyer will say, 'just take it on the chin'.

This is one such occasion.

 

[LondonJohn]

Hello? Gumbel and Sollecito settled. They have agreed to issue an apology. In the publishing world, this is a euphemism for 'pay damages' and retract the calumny.

Sollectio has boobed again by telling the newspapers he's won, when he has not. Alfredo Brizioli, Sollecito's maverick loose cannon lawyer has dropped a bollock spectacularly, and why are we not surprised? Bongiorno has had a sickener of his antics and refused to represent him.

You're not understanding. I'm asking you to present EVIDENCE to support this claim that Gumbel and Sollecito settled. (And by "evidence", I mean real, credible, reliable evidence from an authoritative source.....)

Clearer now?

 

[Bill Williams]

Hello? Gumbel and Sollecito settled. They have agreed to issue an apology. In the publishing world, this is a euphemism for 'pay damages' and retract the calumny.

Sollectio has boobed again by telling the newspapers he's won, when he has not. Alfredo Brizioli, Sollecito's maverick loose cannon lawyer has dropped a bollock spectacularly, and why are we not surprised? Bongiorno has had a sickener of his antics and refused to represent him.

I thought your first position on this was that it is a "side show"?

Why the pivot?

 

[Stacyhs]

According to Il Giornale:

For the Tuscan judge "the fact does not exist" and therefore the passages of the memoir published in the United States on the criminal case related to the murder of the ingrede student Meredith Kercher, are not enough to support the accusation against him.

Yesterday the writer Andrew Gumbel, who with Sollecito had written the book, never went out to Italy. Inside a reconstruction of the investigations carried out by magistrate Giuliano Mignini considered "injurious". The judge (Mignini) had filed a lawsuit for some of Honor-bound songs (passages), and then retracted, leaving only the accusation of defamation, which came to an end today

So it looks like Mignini did withdraw the civil lawsuit, but the reasons are not given. TJMK claims it's because RS and Gumbel have to admit they are wrong and pay money. But there's no evidence of that. Maybe Mignini's lawyers advised him to withdraw it.

 

[LondonJohn]

Sollectio has boobed again by telling the newspapers he's won, when he has not. Alfredo Brizioli, Sollecito's maverick loose cannon lawyer has dropped a bollock spectacularly, and why are we not surprised? Bongiorno has had a sickener of his antics and refused to represent him.

Oh and Vixen, I very strongly suspect that Bongiorno has much better things to do than represent Sollecito in these ludicrous satellite trials on relatively minor charges. She is high-profile, she is in demand, and she is almost-certainly very expensive to hire.

Once again, it appears to be entirely your unfounded speculation (possibly fed, once again, by Baghdad Bob Quennell) that Bongiorno "refused to represent" Sollecito for any reason related to Sollecito's "antics". In fact, I'd wager that it's far, far more likely that Bongiorno was brought in specifically and solely for the murder-related trials. But keep up the spin!

 

[LondonJohn]

According to Il Giornale:


So it looks like Mignini did withdraw the civil lawsuit, but the reasons are not given. TJMK claims it's because RS and Gumbel have to admit they are wrong and pay money. But there's no evidence of that. Maybe Mignini's lawyers advised him to withdraw it.

And a withdrawal of the civil complaint by Mignini should have had zero effect upon the trying of the criminal defamation charge (which is a crime against the Italian State (and by extension the whole of the Italian people), in which Mignini is the alleged victim). Once again (to put it in hopefully easy-to-understand terms), one cannot commit a rape, then "settle" with the victim for lots of money and an apology, and then hope for this to have any influence whatsoever upon a guilty or not-guilty verdict in a criminal trial (though of course it might form some part of mitigation in sentencing if it were a guilty verdict....).


A further irony: according to Vixen's (and Quennell's) unsupported version of events, the nature of the out-of-court settlement included a gagging clause. Yet here we are being told about the basis of this settlement (a withdrawal and apology, and a publication of a written confession of how bad and naughty they were to write those nasty lies). So who among the interested parties broke the gagging clause and nattered to pro-guilt commentators........?

 

[Stacyhs]

We were not talking about why people settle we were talking about occasions when it is black and white you have broken the law and will be found to have done so. Your lawyer will say, 'just take it on the chin'.

This is one such occasion.

As I said, if this was such a slam dunk, black and white case for Mignini, I doubt he would have dropped the lawsuit for a settlement in which, according to you, a gag order would prevent him from publically revealing RS and AG had to apologize and pay him money.

 

[Bill Williams]

A further irony: according to Vixen's (and Quennell's) unsupported version of events, the nature of the out-of-court settlement included a gagging clause. Yet here we are being told about the basis of this settlement (a withdrawal and apology, and a publication of a written confession of how bad and naughty they were to write those nasty lies). So who among the interested parties broke the gagging clause and nattered to pro-guilt commentators........?

It's not an irony.... it is as you further imply, a lie.

Yet another lie.

It's a lie contained in and implied by their very narrative. "It's a nondisclosure agreement, but this is what we can disclose."

Either they are lying or they've just blown the imagined deal.

 

[Stacyhs]

Hello? Gumbel and Sollecito settled. They have agreed to issue an apology. In the publishing world, this is a euphemism for 'pay damages' and retract the calumny.

Sollectio has boobed again by telling the newspapers he's won, when he has not. Alfredo Brizioli, Sollecito's maverick loose cannon lawyer has dropped a bollock spectacularly, and why are we not surprised? Bongiorno has had a sickener of his antics and refused to represent him.

All you have is PQ's say-so on this. And he has given no sources for what he claims. So why are you presenting this as if it were a proven fact? It's not.

I see you cannot refrain from insulting a man who has done nothing but his job as RS's lawyer. And you have the audacity to accuse me of having no decency. Such hypocrisy.

 

[Stacyhs]

This is interesting from PGP Sallyoo on dotnut:

Postby Sallyoo » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:38 pm

I dunno. I'm only reading the Italian press.

It seems abundantly clear to me that the Florence court threw out the vilipendio charge, (in favour of Sollecito and Gumbel) and at the same time removed any restrictions on the distribution of the book, Honor Bound, in Italy.

Ansa report that Mignini has 'rimesso' his complaint of diffamazione. Now, 'rimesso' isn't a word which one could confidently translate out of context - it could equally mean 're-iterated' or 'withdrawn'. In the context of the local Perugia press articles, and the Ansa reporting, it means he has withdrawn it.

So, in my interpretation, completely uninfluenced by any American or British media, the Florence Court decided that any statements included in the almost completely ignored book, Honor Bound, neither 'defamed' the Italian State, nor 'slandered' Mignini.
Sallyoo

 

[Bill Williams]

This is interesting from PGP Sallyoo on dotnut:

Kudos to Sallyoo for calling it like she sees it.

 

[Numbers]

This is interesting from PGP Sallyoo on dotnut:

"Postby Sallyoo » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:38 pm

I dunno. I'm only reading the Italian press.

It seems abundantly clear to me that the Florence court threw out the vilipendio charge, (in favour of Sollecito and Gumbel) and at the same time removed any restrictions on the distribution of the book, Honor Bound, in Italy.

Ansa report that Mignini has 'rimesso' his complaint of diffamazione. Now, 'rimesso' isn't a word which one could confidently translate out of context - it could equally mean 're-iterated' or 'withdrawn'. In the context of the local Perugia press articles, and the Ansa reporting, it means he has withdrawn it.

So, in my interpretation, completely uninfluenced by any American or British media, the Florence Court decided that any statements included in the almost completely ignored book, Honor Bound, neither 'defamed' the Italian State, nor 'slandered' Mignini.
Sallyoo"

All these points appear exactly correct from the media articles and what we have learned about Italian law.

Since Mignini has withdrawn his complaint, both the defamation criminal trial and civil trial as based on that complaint are definitively over. It is not yet clear to me if the verdict of acquittal for criminal defamation/insult of the police can be appealed despite Mignini's withdrawal of his complaint, or whether for that reason, or the statute of limitations, the verdict of acquittal for "vilipendio" is now final and definitive.

 

[Numbers]

Sollecito acquitted of the allegation of criminal defamation to law enforcement
He had been ordered to trial for some passages in the book published in America.

Acquittal [absolution] arrived for Raffaele Sollecito, who before a magistrate [judge] in Florence had to respond to the charge of criminal defamation of law enforcement, an accusation based on certain passages of "Honor Bound: My journey to hell and return with Amanda Knox".

For the Tuscan judge "the fact does not exist" and therefore the passages of the memoir published in the United States on the criminal case related to the murder of the English student Meredith Kercher, are not enough to support the accusation against him.

Also acquitted yesterday was the writer Andrew Gumbel, who with Sollecito had written the book, which was never released in Italy. The book contains a reconstruction of the investigations, carried out by magistrate Giuliano Mignini, deemed "injurious". The magistrate Mignini had filed a complaint and lawsuit in response to some passages of Honor Bound, and then retracted it, leaving only the accusation of criminal defamation, which came to an end today.

"Another page has been linked to the painful affair of Meredith Kercher's murder and Raffaele has still been declared alien to the facts [not involved in the crime]," commented Alfredo Brizioli, one of Sollecito's two lawyers, after the verdict [of acquittal].

Google translation with my help. Here's the original:

Sollecito assolto dall'accusa di vilipendio alle forze dell'ordine
Era stato rinviato a giudizio per alcuni passaggi del libro pubblicato in America

È arrivata l'assoluzione per Raffaele Sollecito, che di fronte alla magistratura di Firenze doveva rispondere dell'accusa di vilipendio alle forze dell'ordine, accusato per alcuni passaggi di "Honor bound, il mio viaggio all'inferno e ritorno con Amanda Knox"
Per il giudice toscano "il fatto non sussiste" e dunque i passaggi del memoir pubblicato negli Stati Uniti sulla vicenda giudiziaria legata all'omicidio della studentessa ingese Meredith Kercher, non sono sufficienti a sostenere l'accusa nei suoi confronti.
Assolto ieri anche lo scrittore Andrew Gumbel, che con Sollecito aveva scritto il libro, mai uscito in Italia. All'interno una ricostruzione delle indagini svolte dal magistrato Giuliano Mignini ritenuta "lesiva". Il giudice aveva sporto querela per alcuni dei brani di "Honor bound", per poi ritirarla, lasciando in piedi soltanto l'accusa di vilipendio, che è venuta meno oggi.
"Si è chiusa un'altra pagina legata alla dolorosa vicenda dell'omicidio di Meredith Kercher e Raffaele è stato ancora dichiarato estraneo ai fatti", ha commentato dopo la sentenza uno dei due legali che seguiva Sollecito, Alfredo Brizioli.

Source: http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/crona...cusa-vilipendio-forze-dellordine-1456263.html

 

[TruthCalls]

If it was going to be an acquittal, Gumbel's lawyers would not have advised him to settle.

In law, some things are certain. If you are parked illegally and you get a parking ticket, your lawyer will advise you to pay the fine.

Likewise, the calumny is there: 'Mignini put pressure on me [Sollecito] to withdraw my alibi for Amanda'.


This is a demonstrable lie. The lawyers will have advised Gumbel to 'just settle'. The law says he is in the wrong. Full stop.

Could you please explain how this is demonstrable?

You have no evidence of a settlement, nor do you have any evidence his lawyer advised him to settle. In fact, it would appear you have invented this entire affair, contrary to what is being reported in the media, and your sole source of information is chronic liar Quennell. Such is the power of confirmation bias.

 

[Bill Williams]

This is a demonstrable lie.*The lawyers will have advised Gumbel to 'just settle'. The law says he is in the wrong. Full stop.

Could you please explain how this is demonstrable?

You have no evidence of a settlement, nor do you have any evidence his lawyer advised him to settle. In fact, it would appear you have invented this entire affair, contrary to what is being reported in the media, and your sole source of information is chronic liar Quennell. Such is the power of confirmation bias.

One might be forgiven for assuming that what would accompany a claim that something is demonstrable, would be the actual demonstration!

But no matter. Vixen's first position was that this was all a side show.

Her second position is to simply parrot Quennell's unsourced invention.

One wonders what her third position will be when next week rolls around and Sollecito does not apologize?

 

[whoanellie]

One might be forgiven for assuming that what would accompany a claim that something is demonstrable, would be the actual demonstration!

But no matter. Vixen's first position was that this was all a side show.

Her second position is to simply parrot Quennell's unsourced invention.

One wonders what her third position will be when next week rolls around and Sollecito does not apologize?

It was a typo?