Flake against Trump

Minoosh said:
Europe has seen cults of personality up close; the U.S. hasn't. We're putting hope in our institutions to save us. But if Trump's significant political opposition melts away ... if GOP senators quit their jobs rather than engage in this internal fray ... I'm not sure how it helps the country.

Amrika über Alles.
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The US has had a few personality cults like William Jennings Bryan, Huey Long and Ronald Reagan.
 
Since the primaries, Flake has always been a strong Trump supporter.
He thought that that would be enough to get himself reelected. Now that he knows that it isn't he is trying to increase his profile with anti Trump rhetoric.
This has nothing to do with him suddenly growing a spine.
 
Oystein said:
Sure, and eastern Europe is installing its share of populist slimeballs nowadays - but fortunately, the Czech Republic doesn't have nuclear weapons and Hungary can't put a lot of economic pressure on the EU as a whole.

Turkey is a case similar to the USA - Erdogan IS inexplicably popular among a people that I thought was more modern, more intelligent than this.
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We're all just badly shaved monkeys :(

For sure we walk around on our hind legs and pretend to be civilised but as soon as we're threatened (by recession these days, in the past plague or famine), we revert to type. It took me a long time to work it out but that's why Brexit was such a gut-punch for me. I thought xenophobia was confined to a tiny minority, turns out I was utterly wrong.

Then again, a longish period of comparative prosperity should see opinions start to swing back IMO.
 
Craig4 said:
With any luck, this revolt could lead to a sensible middle party.
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From a European perspective, that would be to the left of the Democratic Party ;).

I appreciate that there appears to be a huge gulf between the Trumpist (and before that fundamentalist and Tea Party) GOP and the Democratic Party but it's not because the Democratic Party is full of rabid left-wingers and socialists. IMO the Democratic Party is now a centre-right party and the US does not have a major left wing party in the usual sense of the word.

The middle party you propose would still be very much a right wing party. IMO it would certainly be to the right of the Eisenhower and Nixon GOP, likely to be to the right of the Reagan GOP. I'm also not sure what it would espouse.

Right wing orthodoxy has had tax cuts for the wealthy at all costs to promote "trickle-down" (which appears not to work in the US), a strengthening of the military, curtailment of welfare and other aid programmes and a greater devolution of powers to the states. All of this is already in the current GOP programme.

How do you see the sensible middle party differing significantly from the Democratic Party (and by this I mean actual policies as proposed or implemented, not the caricature of the party as presented in certain parts of the media) ?

How are these differences any different from the current GOP ?
 
portlandatheist said:
I've been scratching my head over this question for a year. If you think we've lost our collective mind, you're right, we have.
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It's just misdirection.

There's too much money at the top and too little at the bottom to pay for luxuries like healthcare and infrastructure.

It's important for the very rich to find something to blame for the situation they've created and people are very susceptible to misdirection and they really, really want to blame someone. Trump's good at blame.
 
portlandatheist said:
I was wondering when somebody would start a thread about Flake news.
I hope the small chorus of Republicans speaking against Trump grows and grows, I'm sure many other Republicans feel the same way but are too concerned about upsetting their base to do anything about it.
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Knaves and cowards against fools and ********. More of the latter than the former, of course.
 
Oystein said:
Watching this train wreck from Europe, it is extremely difficult to realize that this base not only exists but even dominates.

What is wrong with the American People?? Why aren't ALL Democratic candidates across the board already polling comfortably north of 70%? Why is anybody other than two or three billionaire families supporting even a single Breitbart/Bannon slimeball candidate?
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That could have been asked in Italy or France or Spain or Germany (and others) in the last century and, perhaps, even the first 17 years of this one.

There are ******** and idiots supporting the bad guys everywhere and they just get good people (and fortunately themselves) killed or ruined. Want to see republickers (which is NOT Republicans which is why I do not call them Republicans - they are not and are trash - which real Republicans would just step over on their way to work!!!)eliminated, made powerless!!!
 
Oystein said:
Sure, and eastern Europe is installing its share of populist slimeballs nowadays - but fortunately, the Czech Republic doesn't have nuclear weapons and Hungary can't put a lot of economic pressure on the EU as a whole.

Turkey is a case similar to the USA - Erdogan IS inexplicably popular among a people that I thought was more modern, more intelligent than this.
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Collectively, people are not well known for rationality.
 
theprestige said:
There is no popular vote. If there were, campaigns and elections would look very different.
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Why I want the electoral college to be changed - in the sense that no states get advantaged for low population - should be purely population based for every state at the level that will eliminate dumb states from stealing elections for republickers.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
The November election is a popular vote. You know, the one where the population votes.
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Which would be fine if there was no electoral collage (yes, I know). The electoral collage makes it pointless since the winner by numbers of the election may not be winner after the electoral collage ***** all over the real vote.
 
fuelair said:
Which would be fine if there was no electoral collage (yes, I know). The electoral collage makes it pointless since the winner by numbers of the election may not be winner after the electoral collage ***** all over the real vote.
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Yes, but that's not the same as there not being a popular vote. You wouldn't be able to reliably say "the electoral collage ***** all over the real vote" if there hadn't been any popular vote at all. And it's also significant in that we can make the statement that faithless electors in the electoral college are so few and far between that they have never effected the outcome of an election.
 
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