The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 26

[bagels]

So if she were guilty, accusing him would be a foolhardy thing to do as she would have believed witnesses could place him at his bar that evening.

Yeah. There are multiple reasons why a guilty Knox wouldn't have blamed Patrick. Another one is that they staged a break-in, admitting you invited the killer in through the front door would undermine your staging and kind of give the game away. If Knox was that compromised and broken obviously Rudy's name would be coming out pretty quickly.

Nothing about the interrogation from either the side, the police or Knox, makes sense in the context of an honest interrogation of a guilty suspect. On the other hand, a coercive interrogation of an innocent suspect explains:

-Why the interrogation wasn't recorded and/or the tapes of it never leaked
-Why Knox named Patrick and not Rudy
-Why Knox ignored that Raff removed her alibi
-Why Knox said she invited the killer in through the front door, despite staging a break-in
-Why the police beat Patrick and called him a dirty black that deserved the electric chair, despite having only a confused statement from an obvious liar
-Why the police said Amanda only told them what they already knew to be correct at the press conference
-Why Mignini shuffled around the statements and presented the altered statements to the arresting judge
-Why the police admitted they told Knox she had trauma induced amnesia

The PGP have to ignore all this or view it as an increasingly improbable series of unfortunate events that amalgamated incidentally and successively into corroborating Knox's version of the interrogation that helped her eventual release and exoneration. Totally delusional.

 

[TruthCalls]

Paucity of logic for a supposed IT boff.

Knox wasn't to know Guede's DNA was on the security database.

Amanda didn't know anything about Guede so how would she know whether his DNA would be in a DNA database or not? Why would she take the chance? And what does DNA have to do with a palm print and shoe prints? If she was trying to cover for Guede for fear that if he were caught he would implicate her, it would be natural for her to clean up his shoe prints as well as she would assume they could connect him to the crime.

You argue she doesn't name Guede because he could finger her if he gets caught yet you also argue she and Raffaele spent hours cleaning up their forensic traces so they don't get caught and yet deliberately left evidence that could link Guede to the crime. You're quick with the personal insults but in reality the paucity of logic aptly applies to you.

 

[Welshman]

It is slam dunk the pair committed the crime and there is a mountain of evidence. The merits court found them guilty on evidence BARD and the appeal court upheld the conviction.

Marasca clearly state they annulled the case because of the press coverage and because of flaws in the investigation, neither of which were legal issues in the first place.

Marasca did confirm the kids lied and lied and lied, were there at the murder when it happened, washed off the victim's blood and did cover up for Rudy.

Yet again in the response to my post we see the inability of the PGP to understand even the simplest concepts. Vixen constantly boasts about all the evidence against Amanda and Raffaele and how guilt was proved BARD. If this was true why did the prosecution have to resort to lying?
Below is the evidence against Rudy Guede which is an example of a slam dunk case where there is plenty of irrefutable evidence. In the case of Guede the prosecution would not need to lie because they have plenty of solid genuine evidence at their disposal.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/rudy-guede/

As can be seen from the links I provided in my post, the prosecution lied on numerous occasions. If the prosecution had so much evidence at their disposal and guilt was provided BARD, why would the prosecution need to resort to telling numerous lies? Lying indicates the prosecution had a lack of evidence and the prosecution were left with no choice but to resort lying. In addition, lying indicates the facts didn’t support the prosecution’s case. For instance, the negative TMB results indicates the footprints in the in the cottage were not made in blood and Stefanoni had to lie about the negative results. The prosecution having to resort to lying makes a complete mockery of the notion the prosecution had a mountain of evidence and a strong case. It staggers belief that people can’t understand this simple concept and anyone who doesn’t understand this must suffer from several mental impairment. People who lack the basic intelligence to understand even the simplest concepts should not be taking part in internet forums.

Vixen constantly repeats the lie the supreme court said Amanda and Raffaele told numerous lies, Amanda washed blood off her hands and covered for Rudy. If the case against Amanda and Raffaele was such a slam dunk, why would PGP need to repeat the same lie over and over again about the suprement court said or is this another simple question PGP are too stupid to understand.

 

[Vixen]

And there are people who believe someone is a psychopath just because it fits their confirmation bias despite the fact that there is no evidence of it, much less an actual diagnosis. Oh, wait, Miss Represented did diagnose them over on TJMK. Too bad PQ was hoodwinked by a woman who had no mental health training at all. How embarrassing.

Can you name one verified and identified mental health professional who has diagnosed either Knox or Sollecito as a psychopath?

Not sure why you're telling me. I do not recall reading the article. How do you know this person has no mental health training?

 

[Vixen]

Psychopaths tend to manifest in childhood.


Read more http://depressiond.org/sociopath-sociopathic-personality-disorder/

Nowhere in Knox's or Sollecito's childhood history is there any indication of personality disorder. The press was hard put to find anyone who knew them who had a bad word to say about either and heaven knows they tried. Yet, Vixen claims they are psychopaths based on nothing but her belief that they killed Meredith Kercher.

It's not a 'belief'. It's a conclusion.

 

[Vixen]

Placing yourself at the crime scene while blaming a provably innocent man of murder is not going to work out any better for you than blaming the person that was actually there. What would a guilty Knox expect the police to do when they found out Patrick was innocent, working at his bar, and his shoes very obviously didn't leave the distinct footprints carefully preserved down the hall, and that if she invited him in the front door why was there a break-in? Hand her a good citizenship award? If Knox knew Guede was the one who attacked Kercher she would have said so in the interrogation when they cracked her.

The only reason it sort of "worked out" in her favor is because she was actually innocent and the interrogation was coerced. This is the central key to the case that the PGP have never been able to work out.

She banked on the police being so racist, they would jail Patrick for no reason, just like back home.

 

[Vixen]

So if she were guilty, accusing him would be a foolhardy thing to do as she would have believed witnesses could place him at his bar that evening.

She thought the bar was shut.

 

[Vixen]

Yeah. There are multiple reasons why a guilty Knox wouldn't have blamed Patrick. Another one is that they staged a break-in, admitting you invited the killer in through the front door would undermine your staging and kind of give the game away. If Knox was that compromised and broken obviously Rudy's name would be coming out pretty quickly.

Nothing about the interrogation from either the side, the police or Knox, makes sense in the context of an honest interrogation of a guilty suspect. On the other hand, a coercive interrogation of an innocent suspect explains:

-Why the interrogation wasn't recorded and/or the tapes of it never leaked
-Why Knox named Patrick and not Rudy
-Why Knox ignored that Raff removed her alibi
-Why Knox said she invited the killer in through the front door, despite staging a break-in
-Why the police beat Patrick and called him a dirty black that deserved the electric chair, despite having only a confused statement from an obvious liar
-Why the police said Amanda only told them what they already knew to be correct at the press conference
-Why Mignini shuffled around the statements and presented the altered statements to the arresting judge
-Why the police admitted they told Knox she had trauma induced amnesia

The PGP have to ignore all this or view it as an increasingly improbable series of unfortunate events that amalgamated incidentally and successively into corroborating Knox's version of the interrogation that helped her eventual release and exoneration. Totally delusional.

You PIP's really enjoy drawing up lists of riddle-me-rees.

 

[Vixen]

Amanda lived in the cottage and it was perfectly normal for her DNA to be in her bathroom. The fact PGP believe Amanda's DNA in her bathroom is incriminating is a prime example of gross stupidity and scientific illiteracy by PGP.

Above your head is it?

 

[Vixen]

Vixen,

If you wouldn't mind could you please answer a few questions;

- Do you agree the police saw the SMS exchange between Amanda and Lumumba and concluded it was evidence they met up the night of the murder or do you think they correctly understood it?

- Did you know that Amanda's 'interpreter', Donnino, explained to Amanda that she was likely forgetting things due to trauma, even going so far as to explain how that once happened to herself?

- Do you think it's possible the police told Amanda they knew she was at the cottage with Lumumba (because of the SMS message) and, seeing as she couldn't remember (due to trauma as per Donnino) what happened the police asked her to imagine what might have happened? If no, why not?

- Do you understand that there is a difference between Amanda saying "I stand by what I said last night" and Amanda putting herself at the cottage? (Hint: If you are convinced of something by others and make statements accordingly, and later realize you don't believe what you were told, you can still stand by the statements you made because they were based on what you believed at that time.)

- Do you realize that in both writings you refer to Amanda makes it very clear she does not trust these memories, that they do not seem real. In fact, in the second writing she makes it clear she is certain they were false memories, that she was at Raffaele's as she had said all along and that they should not be arresting someone based on the statements she signed. You do realize all this, right?

As to the Luminol...

- Do you understand Luminol is a presumptive test and only indicates a possibility of the presence of blood?

- Are you aware that it is documented a positive Luminol test MUST be followed up with a confirmatory test for blood and that without this test the Luminol results are meaningless?

- Do you understand a second presumptive test, TMB, was done and this test was negative on all Luminol traces?

- Do you understand that on all but three of the Luminol traces Meredith's DNA was not found?

- Can you offer a scientific explanation for how multiple traces made from Meredith's blood could be TMB negative and not contain Meredith's DNA?

Oh, don't tell us: TMB and DNA profiling are all wrong.

The problem for you, Vixen, is you keep making claims which you know are not backed up by verifiable facts and/or science. If I had claimed Amanda was at the cottage at the time of the murder as many times as you I can guarantee you I would be prepared to explain exactly how that was known. But in all the dozens of times I've seen people ask you for evidence you've never been able to provide it. Ditto on washing Meredith's blood from her hands. Ditto on how the Luminol traces were made from Meredith's blood. Your arguments are all faith based... it's what you believe. The PIP arguments are based on science and indisputable logic. That's why the dedicated PGP cites refused to allow PIP to post - because they know they can't win arguments based on faith when others are presenting science and logic.

What is this, TC, exams? Do I get three hours, and twenty minutes' reading time?

 

[Stacyhs]

Amanda didn't know anything about Guede so how would she know whether his DNA would be in a DNA database or not? Why would she take the chance? And what does DNA have to do with a palm print and shoe prints? If she was trying to cover for Guede for fear that if he were caught he would implicate her, it would be natural for her to clean up his shoe prints as well as she would assume they could connect him to the crime.

You argue she doesn't name Guede because he could finger her if he gets caught yet you also argue she and Raffaele spent hours cleaning up their forensic traces so they don't get caught and yet deliberately left evidence that could link Guede to the crime. You're quick with the personal insults but in reality the paucity of logic aptly applies to you.

The PGP want to have it both ways. Amanda was so cunning but yet so stupid at the same time that:
1) she could remove all traces of herself from the murder room yet she knowingly left her own blood in the bathroom and her own bloody footprints in the hallway.

2) she staged a break-in using the same MO as Guede but she covered for him.

3) she staged a break-in but she failed to "steal" anything.

4) she removed all traces of Sollecito from the murder room yet left his bloody footpring on the bathmat in order to "taunt" the police.

And it goes on and on and on.

 

[Vixen]

Apparently at the first trial in Perugia in 2009, it was permissible to refer to someone as a "she devil", but the PGP-PR campaign insists it would have been illegal to bring a suspect's mental health as evidence.

It is their way of fudging that in four years of incarceration, the prosecution never thought to have them evaluated for those sorts of mental health issues. And that's not all for the "fudge", the campaign can (a decade later) try to claim that psychopathology had not been ruled out!

That's how the game is played.

Pacelli, Patrick's counsel, I liked.

'Luciferina' had his client arrested for rape and murder.

What kind of **** behaves like that?

 

[Vixen]

Stacy, clearly Kassin wasn't paying attention. According to the PGP, Amanda knew it was Guede but fingered Lumumba to protect Guede because she was afraid Guede would finger her.

Of course, this begs the question; if she wanted to protect Guede then why in the world would she not clean up his forensic traces - hand print, shoe prints, DNA, including an unflushed toilet - while she was cleaning up her's and Raffaele's? Such is the tortured state of PGP 'thinking'

Did you mean torturous or tortuous, because your version implies PGP are tortured, by the PIP's poor logic no doubt.

 

[Vixen]

Amanda didn't know anything about Guede so how would she know whether his DNA would be in a DNA database or not? Why would she take the chance? And what does DNA have to do with a palm print and shoe prints? If she was trying to cover for Guede for fear that if he were caught he would implicate her, it would be natural for her to clean up his shoe prints as well as she would assume they could connect him to the crime.

You argue she doesn't name Guede because he could finger her if he gets caught yet you also argue she and Raffaele spent hours cleaning up their forensic traces so they don't get caught and yet deliberately left evidence that could link Guede to the crime. You're quick with the personal insults but in reality the paucity of logic aptly applies to you.

You still don't get it, do you? Amanda can hardly say 'Guede did it', without putting herself in it, so she carefully made sure they'd find his shoeprints, blood and excreta in the loo, and finger him without drawing attention to herself.

Napoleoni must have thought, 'Who are these two nuts, trying to get me to look at a turd in a toilet?'

 

[Vixen]

Yet again in the response to my post we see the inability of the PGP to understand even the simplest concepts. Vixen constantly boasts about all the evidence against Amanda and Raffaele and how guilt was proved BARD. If this was true why did the prosecution have to resort to lying?
Below is the evidence against Rudy Guede which is an example of a slam dunk case where there is plenty of irrefutable evidence. In the case of Guede the prosecution would not need to lie because they have plenty of solid genuine evidence at their disposal.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/rudy-guede/

As can be seen from the links I provided in my post, the prosecution lied on numerous occasions. If the prosecution had so much evidence at their disposal and guilt was provided BARD, why would the prosecution need to resort to telling numerous lies? Lying indicates the prosecution had a lack of evidence and the prosecution were left with no choice but to resort lying. In addition, lying indicates the facts didn’t support the prosecution’s case. For instance, the negative TMB results indicates the footprints in the in the cottage were not made in blood and Stefanoni had to lie about the negative results. The prosecution having to resort to lying makes a complete mockery of the notion the prosecution had a mountain of evidence and a strong case. It staggers belief that people can’t understand this simple concept and anyone who doesn’t understand this must suffer from several mental impairment. People who lack the basic intelligence to understand even the simplest concepts should not be taking part in internet forums.

Vixen constantly repeats the lie the supreme court said Amanda and Raffaele told numerous lies, Amanda washed blood off her hands and covered for Rudy. If the case against Amanda and Raffaele was such a slam dunk, why would PGP need to repeat the same lie over and over again about the suprement court said or is this another simple question PGP are too stupid to understand.

I reckon you have a template, on which you simply fill in the blank spaces, ready to send off.

"Why do the PGP constantly accuse........of.........when the PGP themselves constantly.........

Vixen constantly accuses Amanda and Raffaele of ........., when Vixen herself constantly.......


If it is such a slam dunk case, why do the PGP need to repeat the same lie over again.

Below is a link to my last twenty posts about the lies the PGP constantly say is a mountain of evidence and a slam dunk.'

 

[Stacyhs]

Not sure why you're telling me. I do not recall reading the article. How do you know this person has no mental health training?

Oh, come on. Do you think anybody here believes you don't know the whole Miss Represented debacle? The woman was a recent college grad in social media. She presented herself as a psychologist and PQ, along with other TJMK darlings, repeated that claim.

The psychologist Miss Represented who also posts here on TJMK posted on her own website an extraordinary series of informed conjectures from a professional point of view, and they are worth reading from the beginning. M-R is on her own summer break now and so the chat there is relatively quiet

.
Posted by Peter Quennell*on*08/15/09*at*07:49 AM | #

Nina Burleigh in her TIME article:

There are other players, more diffident, in the Amanda Knox hating universe. One called herself Miss Represented, on a site by that name which dispensed what professed to be expertise in criminal psychology, dedicated to proving Amanda Knox’s psychopathy. The operator of the site turned out to be a young social media expert in Bath, working at a UK social media company, horrified that I had emailed her at work. In a pleading email, she begged me not to publish her real name, which I will not do, and wrote: “Miss Represented was only ever supposed to be a place for my own reflections, some of them I still stand by, some of them I’ve rethought as I’ve gotten a little older and bit more mature.”

Besides statement analysis, the guilters also thought they had a psychologist on board but it turns out they were duped once again. A woman named Ellie Ewing created a blog titled "Lies My Mother Told Me" in which she discussed the Amanda Knox case while representing herself as a psychologist with "many years of experience." She ironically referred to herself as "Miss Represented" on her blog while using her false credentials to provide analysis of Amanda‘s behavior in court.

The truth is Ewing had no clinical psychology experience and no credentials as a psychologist, which requires an advanced degree at the time of her writing.

When Ewing‘s lies were exposed she quickly took her blog offline saying that she was no longer involved with the case. Unfortunately she was not outed until the appeal was coming to a close. Her fraudulent analysis was read by many over the past few years and was heavily promoted on TJMK. He proudly stated that his site provided the expert opinion of Ellie Ewing. To this day Quennell has never acknowledged that Ewing was a fraud even though the proof is now very clear.

(IIP)

Miss Represented's fraud and TJMK's duping was thoroughly discussed with links to Quennell's and other popular TJMK contributors' claim that she was a psychologist (with a doctorate, no less) here:
http://injusticeanywhereforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=1094&p=14840

And by the way, can you produce any named mental health professional who has diagnosed either RS or AK as being psychopaths? I thought not.

 

[Stacyhs]

It's not a 'belief'. It's a conclusion.

No, a conclusion is based on reasoning deduced from evidence. There is no evidence that AK and RS are psychopaths. You have a belief. But that's all it is: a belief.

 

[Vixen]

Oh, come on. Do you think anybody here believes you don't know the whole Miss Represented debacle? The woman was a recent college grad in social media. She presented herself as a psychologist and PQ, along with other TJMK darlings, repeated that claim.

.
Posted by Peter Quennell*on*08/15/09*at*07:49 AM | #

Nina Burleigh in her TIME article:



(IIP)

Miss Represented's fraud and TJMK's duping was thoroughly discussed with links to Quennell's and other popular TJMK contributors' claim that she was a psychologist (with a doctorate, no less) here:
Deleted
And by the way, can you produce any named mental health professional who has diagnosed either RS or AK as being psychopaths? I thought not.

I see. It's yet another one of your doxxing exercises.

So Nina Burleigh contacted this person's employers and blackmailed her.

You do realise this person appears to be working for a charity and you are recklessly solciting Amanda Knox fans to harass her at work by posting her linkedin details, for no discernible reason.

No morals, no manners, no decency.

 

[Bill Williams]

Pacelli, Patrick's counsel, I liked.

'Luceriferina' had his client arrested for rape and murder.

What kind of **** behaves like that?

The PGP-PR campaign always lets Mignini off the hook.

Author John Follain, another Mignini surrogate, put it this way: Mignini thought of Knox as a liar, always changing her story.

Yet when she "accused Lumumba" Mignini had no choice but to arrest him on "her say so".

This is the way the PGP-PR campaign rolls.

 

[Stacyhs]

She banked on the police being so racist, they would jail Patrick for no reason, just like back home.

ROTFLMAO. As if Amanda, after less than two months in Italy and with no prior contact with Italian police would "bank on the police being so racist". What's that sound I hear? Oh, yes...the bottom of the barrel being scraped.

She thought the bar was shut.

Why would she think the bar was shut? Patrick's text said nothing about it being shut. He told her it was slow. Try again.

Scrape, scrape, scrape...