The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 26

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Amanda Knox put herself at the scene, once verbally, within an hour or so after voluntarily arriving at the Questura, when hearing Raff had withdrawn his alibi for her, telling police his initial statement had been a 'sack of ****', and twice more in writing by her own hand.

Her footprints in Mez' blood is highlighted by luminol. Her DNA is mixed in with Mez' DNA in the bathroom and in Filomena's room, and in one of the luminol highlighted dfootprint.

Oh, don't tell us: the luminol is all wrong.
The PGP-PR campaign simply repeats long since discredited factoids, 2 1/2 years after the pair's exonerations.

Harry Rag used to do this. He had been on a multiyear cut and paste campaign in every comments section of every online story.

In the post above it does not seem to matter that Knox's footprint was never found in blood. The goal is simple repetition of a factoid.

Expect more. The goal is not to present evidence, it is to repeat, repeat, repeat.

BTW - how's it going trying to divert from Nick van der Leek's plagiarism? Or is PQ wrong?
 
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Amanda Knox put herself at the scene, once verbally, within an hour or so after voluntarily arriving at the Questura, when hearing Raff had withdrawn his alibi for her, telling police his initial statement had been a 'sack of ****', and twice more in writing by her own hand.

Her footprints in Mez' blood is highlighted by luminol. Her DNA is mixed in with Mez' DNA in the bathroom and in Filomena's room, and in one of the luminol highlighted footprint.

Oh, don't tell us: the luminol is all wrong.

Vixen,

If you wouldn't mind could you please answer a few questions;

- Do you agree the police saw the SMS exchange between Amanda and Lumumba and concluded it was evidence they met up the night of the murder or do you think they correctly understood it?

- Did you know that Amanda's 'interpreter', Donnino, explained to Amanda that she was likely forgetting things due to trauma, even going so far as to explain how that once happened to herself?

- Do you think it's possible the police told Amanda they knew she was at the cottage with Lumumba (because of the SMS message) and, seeing as she couldn't remember (due to trauma as per Donnino) what happened the police asked her to imagine what might have happened? If no, why not?

- Do you understand that there is a difference between Amanda saying "I stand by what I said last night" and Amanda putting herself at the cottage? (Hint: If you are convinced of something by others and make statements accordingly, and later realize you don't believe what you were told, you can still stand by the statements you made because they were based on what you believed at that time.)

- Do you realize that in both writings you refer to Amanda makes it very clear she does not trust these memories, that they do not seem real. In fact, in the second writing she makes it clear she is certain they were false memories, that she was at Raffaele's as she had said all along and that they should not be arresting someone based on the statements she signed. You do realize all this, right?

As to the Luminol...

- Do you understand Luminol is a presumptive test and only indicates a possibility of the presence of blood?

- Are you aware that it is documented a positive Luminol test MUST be followed up with a confirmatory test for blood and that without this test the Luminol results are meaningless?

- Do you understand a second presumptive test, TMB, was done and this test was negative on all Luminol traces?

- Do you understand that on all but three of the Luminol traces Meredith's DNA was not found?

- Can you offer a scientific explanation for how multiple traces made from Meredith's blood could be TMB negative and not contain Meredith's DNA?

Oh, don't tell us: TMB and DNA profiling are all wrong.

The problem for you, Vixen, is you keep making claims which you know are not backed up by verifiable facts and/or science. If I had claimed Amanda was at the cottage at the time of the murder as many times as you I can guarantee you I would be prepared to explain exactly how that was known. But in all the dozens of times I've seen people ask you for evidence you've never been able to provide it. Ditto on washing Meredith's blood from her hands. Ditto on how the Luminol traces were made from Meredith's blood. Your arguments are all faith based... it's what you believe. The PIP arguments are based on science and indisputable logic. That's why the dedicated PGP cites refused to allow PIP to post - because they know they can't win arguments based on faith when others are presenting science and logic.
 
Vixen,

If you wouldn't mind could you please answer a few questions;

- Do you agree the police saw the SMS exchange between Amanda and Lumumba and concluded it was evidence they met up the night of the murder or do you think they correctly understood it?

- Did you know that Amanda's 'interpreter', Donnino, explained to Amanda that she was likely forgetting things due to trauma, even going so far as to explain how that once happened to herself?

- Do you think it's possible the police told Amanda they knew she was at the cottage with Lumumba (because of the SMS message) and, seeing as she couldn't remember (due to trauma as per Donnino) what happened the police asked her to imagine what might have happened? If no, why not?

- Do you understand that there is a difference between Amanda saying "I stand by what I said last night" and Amanda putting herself at the cottage? (Hint: If you are convinced of something by others and make statements accordingly, and later realize you don't believe what you were told, you can still stand by the statements you made because they were based on what you believed at that time.)

- Do you realize that in both writings you refer to Amanda makes it very clear she does not trust these memories, that they do not seem real. In fact, in the second writing she makes it clear she is certain they were false memories, that she was at Raffaele's as she had said all along and that they should not be arresting someone based on the statements she signed. You do realize all this, right?

As to the Luminol...

- Do you understand Luminol is a presumptive test and only indicates a possibility of the presence of blood?

- Are you aware that it is documented a positive Luminol test MUST be followed up with a confirmatory test for blood and that without this test the Luminol results are meaningless?

- Do you understand a second presumptive test, TMB, was done and this test was negative on all Luminol traces?

- Do you understand that on all but three of the Luminol traces Meredith's DNA was not found?

- Can you offer a scientific explanation for how multiple traces made from Meredith's blood could be TMB negative and not contain Meredith's DNA?

Oh, don't tell us: TMB and DNA profiling are all wrong.

The problem for you, Vixen, is you keep making claims which you know are not backed up by verifiable facts and/or science. If I had claimed Amanda was at the cottage at the time of the murder as many times as you I can guarantee you I would be prepared to explain exactly how that was known. But in all the dozens of times I've seen people ask you for evidence you've never been able to provide it. Ditto on washing Meredith's blood from her hands. Ditto on how the Luminol traces were made from Meredith's blood. Your arguments are all faith based... it's what you believe. The PIP arguments are based on science and indisputable logic. That's why the dedicated PGP cites refused to allow PIP to post - because they know they can't win arguments based on faith when others are presenting science and logic.

When you put all this aside, you have to admit Vixen is on to something.....
 
No, it's not because 'it breaks the rules', it's called 'manners'.

It was extremely rude of you to unedit someone else's post for mischievous reason.

LOL. Once again, Vixen, you make unfounded accusations in order to divert from the fact that you were wrong about Michael B's post "proving" that NvdL "published a direct link to Pruett's timeline" in Doubt.

You are right about one thing: it isn't against the rules which I thought it was. But your editing out his last name wasn't due to "manners".
 
Then there are the gullible folks who believe psychopaths think and feel the same way as a normal person. Hence, they cannot possibly have committed a murder, is the reasoning, and it must have been a police frame up.

And there are people who believe someone is a psychopath just because it fits their confirmation bias despite the fact that there is no evidence of it, much less an actual diagnosis. Oh, wait, Miss Represented did diagnose them over on TJMK. Too bad PQ was hoodwinked by a woman who had no mental health training at all. How embarrassing.

Can you name one verified and identified mental health professional who has diagnosed either Knox or Sollecito as a psychopath?
 
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And there are people who believe someone is a psychopath just because it fits their confirmation bias despite the fact that there is no evidence of it, much less an actual diagnosis. Oh, wait, Miss Represented did diagnose them over on TJMK. Too bad PQ was hoodwinked by a woman who had no mental health training at all. How embarrassing.

Can you name one verified and identified mental health professional who has diagnosed either Knox or Sollecito as a psychopath?

Apparently at the first trial in Perugia in 2009, it was permissible to refer to someone as a "she devil", but the PGP-PR campaign insists it would have been illegal to bring a suspect's mental health as evidence.

It is their way of fudging that in four years of incarceration, the prosecution never thought to have them evaluated for those sorts of mental health issues. And that's not all for the "fudge", the campaign can (a decade later) try to claim that psychopathology had not been ruled out!

That's how the game is played.
 
Amanda Knox put herself at the scene, once verbally, within an hour or so after voluntarily arriving at the Questura, when hearing Raff had withdrawn his alibi for her, telling police his initial statement had been a 'sack of ****', and twice more in writing by her own hand.

Her footprints in Mez' blood is highlighted by luminol. Her DNA is mixed in with Mez' DNA in the bathroom and in Filomena's room, and in one of the luminol highlighted footprint.

Oh, don't tell us: the luminol is all wrong.

You ignore the fact that Saul Kassin, the world's leading expert on false confessions, says the "confession" was false.

This case horrifies me. I'd like to say it shocks me. But I've seen others like it

I believe Amanda's confession is false. I believe Amanda is innocent," Kassin said. "If she was there...wouldn't she have known that Patrick wasn't there? Wouldn't she have known that Rudy was there? The reason she didn't know those things is that she wasn't there.

Don't tell us: the expert is all wrong.

The footprint "in blood" tested negative with TMB which experts, including Stefanoni, say means no blood is present.

Don't tell us: the experts are all wrong.

That DNA can be deposited at different times and then mixed quite innocently, including upon collection, is a scientific fact. It is accepted by forensic experts the world over, including Peter Gill.

Don't tell us: the experts are all wrong.
 
Apparently at the first trial in Perugia in 2009, it was permissible to refer to someone as a "she devil", but the PGP-PR campaign insists it would have been illegal to bring a suspect's mental health as evidence.

It is their way of fudging that in four years of incarceration, the prosecution never thought to have them evaluated for those sorts of mental health issues. And that's not all for the "fudge", the campaign can (a decade later) try to claim that psychopathology had not been ruled out!

That's how the game is played.

Psychopaths tend to manifest in childhood.

Though no person is born with this disorder, the sociopathic personality disorder does involve a history of persistent anti social behavior during childhood before the age of 15 and if left untreated, this disorder continues into adulthood too.
Read more http://depressiond.org/sociopath-sociopathic-personality-disorder/

Nowhere in Knox's or Sollecito's childhood history is there any indication of personality disorder. The press was hard put to find anyone who knew them who had a bad word to say about either and heaven knows they tried. Yet, Vixen claims they are psychopaths based on nothing but her belief that they killed Meredith Kercher.
 
I believe Amanda's confession is false. I believe Amanda is innocent," Kassin said. "If she was there...wouldn't she have known that Patrick wasn't there? Wouldn't she have known that Rudy was there? The reason she didn't know those things is that she wasn't there. .

Stacy, clearly Kassin wasn't paying attention. According to the PGP, Amanda knew it was Guede but fingered Lumumba to protect Guede because she was afraid Guede would finger her.

Of course, this begs the question; if she wanted to protect Guede then why in the world would she not clean up his forensic traces - hand print, shoe prints, DNA, including an unflushed toilet - while she was cleaning up her's and Raffaele's? Such is the tortured state of PGP 'thinking'
 
Stacy, clearly Kassin wasn't paying attention. According to the PGP, Amanda knew it was Guede but fingered Lumumba to protect Guede because she was afraid Guede would finger her.

Of course, this begs the question; if she wanted to protect Guede then why in the world would she not clean up his forensic traces - hand print, shoe prints, DNA, including an unflushed toilet - while she was cleaning up her's and Raffaele's? Such is the tortured state of PGP 'thinking'

Yes, I've always wondered about that reasoning. I've asked on many occasions how "covering up" for Guede included leaving all the visible (and invisible!) signs he left behind but cleaning up only their own. Rather odd way to cover for someone.

Of course, my favorite explanation for their having left "Raff's" bloody footprint on the bath mat and even pointing it out to police is that they were "taunting" them. How's that for tortured thinking?
 
Amanda Knox put herself at the scene, once verbally, within an hour or so after voluntarily arriving at the Questura, when hearing Raff had withdrawn his alibi for her, telling police his initial statement had been a 'sack of ****', and twice more in writing by her own hand.

Her footprints in Mez' blood is highlighted by luminol. Her DNA is mixed in with Mez' DNA in the bathroom and in Filomena's room, and in one of the luminol highlighted footprint.

Oh, don't tell us: the luminol is all wrong.

Amanda lived in the cottage and it was perfectly normal for her DNA to be in her bathroom. The fact PGP believe Amanda's DNA in her bathroom is incriminating is a prime example of gross stupidity and scientific illiteracy by PGP.
 
Stacy, clearly Kassin wasn't paying attention. According to the PGP, Amanda knew it was Guede but fingered Lumumba to protect Guede because she was afraid Guede would finger her.

Of course, this begs the question; if she wanted to protect Guede then why in the world would she not clean up his forensic traces - hand print, shoe prints, DNA, including an unflushed toilet - while she was cleaning up her's and Raffaele's? Such is the tortured state of PGP 'thinking'

Paucity of logic for a supposed IT boff.

Knox wasn't to know Guede's DNA was on the security database.
 
Amanda lived in the cottage and it was perfectly normal for her DNA to be in her bathroom. The fact PGP believe Amanda's DNA in her bathroom is incriminating is a prime example of gross stupidity and scientific illiteracy by PGP.

But the PGP think it's improbable that blood, dripped over Amanda's pre-existing DNA, would become mixed with that DNA when wiped up as seen in the police video. There were 3 or 4 mixed DNA samples in Raff's apartment that were not blood. How do they think that happened?
 
LOL. Once again, Vixen, you make unfounded accusations in order to divert from the fact that you were wrong about Michael B's post "proving" that NvdL "published a direct link to Pruett's timeline" in Doubt.

You are right about one thing: it isn't against the rules which I thought it was. But your editing out his last name wasn't due to "manners".

You are a stranger to the concept. No surprise it baffles you.
 
Paucity of logic for a supposed IT boff.

Knox wasn't to know Guede's DNA was on the security database.

LOL! His DNA wasn't. His fingerprints were. That is how he was identified.

Knox did know that Lumumba was working that night and that there would be customers to witnesses that. As there were.
 
Paucity of logic for a supposed IT boff.

Knox wasn't to know Guede's DNA was on the security database.

Placing yourself at the crime scene while blaming a provably innocent man of murder is not going to work out any better for you than blaming the person that was actually there. What would a guilty Knox expect the police to do when they found out Patrick was innocent, working at his bar, and his shoes very obviously didn't leave the distinct footprints carefully preserved down the hall, and that if she invited him in the front door why was there a break-in? Hand her a good citizenship award? If Knox knew Guede was the one who attacked Kercher she would have said so in the interrogation when they cracked her.

The only reason it sort of "worked out" in her favor is because she was actually innocent and the interrogation was coerced. This is the central key to the case that the PGP have never been able to work out.
 
Knox did know that Lumumba was working that night and that there would be customers to witnesses that. As there were.

A guilty Knox would know that yes, because a guilty Knox would know he certainly wasn't at the crime scene where she was.

But an innocent Knox wouldn't know, because the police seemed to insist she met him outside the cottage and was covering up his involvement and her lack of memory was trauma induced amnesia.
 
A guilty Knox would know that yes, because a guilty Knox would know he certainly wasn't at the crime scene where she was.

But an innocent Knox wouldn't know, because the police seemed to insist she met him outside the cottage and was covering up his involvement and her lack of memory was trauma induced amnesia.

So if she were guilty, accusing him would be a foolhardy thing to do as she would have believed witnesses could place him at his bar that evening.
 
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